Combining AXE FX with Universal Audio X4 - Flexibile Setup

P

Parmageddons

New Member
Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase a new audio interface and albeit expensive, the UA stuff appears to be getting incredible reviews, so leaning that way.

I do like the tones i've been getting with my axe fx though, running it through the power section of a fender hot rod deluxe, I dont want to lose that as I do enjoy record that sound mic'd up along side D.I'ing it too...... So wondering what is the best way to hook all this up?

I have seen a few threads on here suggesting going Guitar -> Axe FX -> UA Apollo -> PC / Monitors.

MY question I guess is:- Could it also work if It went Guitar -> UA Apollo -> Axe FX -> PC / Monitors?

The reason I ask is because I also have a Kemper that I often use too. In an ideal world I'd have the UA apollo running to both the axe and kemper, and i'd only ever plug into the UA Apollo then decide which modeller I want to use on the day of recording....without having to rewire and unplug a load of stuff every time.

And if the above wasnt complicated enough. In the same setup. I want to be able to use UA apollo with Neural DSP VSTS too, and bypass the axe and kemper entirely.... but again without having to unplug stuff etc.

Is the above even possible? If so, how? If not, what do I need to tweak / rethink?

thanks so much
 
UA is great...it is all I use for AI. The best part is monitoring is basically latency free. You could get away with a twin quad if all you need is two inputs. But the x4 is nice. You can also daisy chain their units so if you wanted to add an apollo 8 down the line you could.
 
thanks both, I noticed on the UA you only start get one digital out (toslink) on the X4. So assume its fine to do analogue(line) out to the axe and kemper and it still be latency free?

Or would I be better going with the X6 which as far as I can see has 3 digital outs, 1 spdif and 2 x optical out?

Also if I went with Guitar -> UA Apollo -> Axe FX/Kemper -> PC / Monitors?
Would I be using the modellers USB out to PC? and how would I connect both the axe / kemper to the same pc / same monitors?

GlennO said:
Yes, you can do that. In fact, that's typically how one combines an Axe-FX and an audio interface. You'll find instructions how to do that here:
Click to expand...

Would setup #5 most closely resemble what im asking here?

thanks again.
 
Yes, get a toslink to coax adapter for your X4, then follow the instructions for configuration #5 to set it up and you'll have a sweet recording rig. No, there is no need to use analog out to the Axe-FX...the X4 has digital in and out.

With configuration #5, even though you'll be doing recording over USB to the audio interface, you still connect the Axe-FX to your computer via USB, but only for the purpose of connecting to Axe-Edit. All audio monitoring happens via the audio interface with configuration #5.

If you can swing it, sure, go for the x6. Otherwise, use the digital i/o to the Axe-FX and analog to the Kemper. Assuming you expect to be primarily using the Axe-FX (and not the Kemper) for DI recording and re-amping, that should be fine.
 
I dunno if this sounds interesting to you at all but in my setup I stick the audio interface in a loop on the axe fx via in/out 3. That is fun as I can put my plugins anywhere in the grid of the preset on the axe-fx. If I want to run just plugins I have basically an empty preset just an in and out block block. You could also run the Kemper in the same way and on a single preset chain Axe-FX + plugins + Kemper in anyway you wanted. You could go out from the Axe-FX to your monitors or out from the axe back into another set of inputs on the Apollo then out to your monitors.
 
Parmageddons said:
Or would I be better going with the X6 which as far as I can see has 3 digital outs, 1 spdif and 2 x optical out?
Click to expand...
One other thing worth mentioning: I assume you're looking at an Apollo primarily because you want to use the UA plugins. But, if instead you're primarily interested in the i/o, you can get multiple digital i/o with something like a motu lp32 for way less money than an x6.
 
GlennO said:
One other thing worth mentioning: I assume you're looking at an Apollo primarily because you want to use the UA plugins. But, if instead you're primarily interested in the i/o, you can get multiple digital i/o with something like a motu lp32 for way less money than an x6.
Click to expand...

Yes, part of the appeal is down to what seems to be low latency handled by the unit itself, and the plugins seem great. I'll be real honest in saying when it comes to setup like this im old school and a complete newb. I mic up my cab and that's it. But times are moving on and I i think now's the time for me to too. Alot of the stuff I hear when folks are using UA generally sounds great, what that's entirely down to im not sure but following the hardware setup doesn't seem a bad strategy.

I looked at the focusrite stuff too re: your well made point about more I/O for less money. The 18i20 i think it was. But putting the cost aside for a moment I'm fairly fine with going UA. Isn't a huge difference in price between the X4 and X6. The latter likely being overkill if I can run analogue to and from the Axe with no obvious issues. As it sounds like i'd have to do that with a kemper rack anyway?
 
The latency on the Apollo pretty good, but not really a lot different than other interfaces. If you go with a thunderbolt interface instead of usb, you'll get somewhat lower latency (although thunderbolt is usually only used when one needs to record large numbers of inputs simultaneously). However, latency is usually more a consequence of your computer's cpu than your interface. Keep in mind though: if you're monitoring direct (and you probably should), the latency doesn't matter at all.

On the other hand, if you want to monitor through effects, the Apollo has Unison to allow you to do that with low latency. But I'm not sure that makes much sense with the Axe-FX, which already has a pretty impressive array of effects.

You definitely should record digitally if at all possible. There are many advantages to that over analog, including things like simplifying level balancing. For an interface like the X4, recording the Axe-FX digitally is not a problem. The only problem is when you want to add a second device like the Kemper. If you want to record multiple devices digitally, you'll need an interface capable of that, like the LP32. The X6 can do that, but not the X4. I don't think Focusrite makes anything that can do that. Another option worth considering for that situation is an inexpensive digital switcher, since you won't be using both devices at the same time. That way any interface capable of spdif input and output will suffice, like the X4 or a Scarlett 8i6.
 
GlennO said:
Yes, get a toslink to coax adapter for your X4, then follow the instructions for configuration #5 to set it up and you'll have a sweet recording rig. No, there is no need to use analog out to the Axe-FX...the X4 has digital in and out.

With configuration #5, even though you'll be doing recording over USB to the audio interface, you still connect the Axe-FX to your computer via USB, but only for the purpose of connecting to Axe-Edit. All audio monitoring happens via the audio interface with configuration #5.
Click to expand...

thanks that's great to read. Couple questions on it.
:- Is there any recording quality / latency advantage to any of the configurations. Better said is there any big downsides to config#5? i.e why would someone run Guitar > Axe > UA > PC / Monitors Oppose to Guitar > UA > Axe > PC Monitors

:- If i understood you correct, then both the axe and the UA would be connected to the PC via their respective USB's. The former for axe edit, the latter for recording. In which i'd have the UA set as my audio interface, not the axe fx? I've tried to draw a couple diagrams below to make sure I understood you right. for the UA4 and UA6 respectively.

UA4_Setup.jpgUA6_Setup.jpg
 
GlennO said:
The latency on the Apollo pretty good, but not really a lot different than other interfaces. If you go with a thunderbolt interface instead of usb, you'll get somewhat lower latency (although thunderbolt is usually only used when one needs to record large numbers of inputs simultaneously). However, latency is usually more a consequence of your computer's cpu than your interface. Keep in mind though: if you're monitoring direct (and you probably should), the latency doesn't matter at all.

On the other hand, if you want to monitor through effects, the Apollo has Unison to allow you to do that with low latency. But I'm not sure that makes much sense with the Axe-FX, which already has a pretty impressive array of effects.

You definitely should record digitally if at all possible. There are many advantages to that over analog, including things like simplifying level balancing. For an interface like the X4, recording the Axe-FX digitally is not a problem. The only problem is when you want to add a second device like the Kemper. If you want to record multiple devices digitally, you'll need an interface capable of that, like the LP32. The X6 can do that, but not the X4. I don't think Focusrite makes anything that can do that. Another option worth considering for that situation is an inexpensive digital switcher, since you won't be using both devices at the same time. That way any interface capable of spdif input and output will suffice, like the X4 or a Scarlett 8i6.
Click to expand...

Sorry was part way replying to your other helpful comment! I may've mentioned already, I want to be able to go Guitar > UA > PC and use Neural DSP Vsts too for times when I wont have my axe fx or kemper at home. Thats another part of the UA appeal to me.
 
For what you want to do, especially using both the Axe-FX and the Kemper without recabling and especially if you want to get into re-amping, configuration #5 is the way to go. The X4 diagram is right, but the X6 diagram isn't quite right. The X6 has two pairs of digital i/o. In other words, the reason you would upgrade to the X6 over the X4 is because both the Axe-FX and the Kemper would both have digital connections. Realistically though, you won't be using both at the same time, so you could just get a simple rca switcher have them share a single adat i/o pair, in which case you wouldn't need the X6.

Bypassing the Axe-FX to use a modeler plugin on your computer is quite simple in any of the configurations in the recording guide, so I wouldn't worry about that. See the "Monitor through DAW" topic in the guide.
 
GlennO said:
For what you want to do, especially using both the Axe-FX and the Kemper without recabling and especially if you want to get into re-amping, configuration #5 is the way to go. The X4 diagram is right, but the X6 diagram isn't quite right. The X6 has two pairs of digital i/o. In other words, the reason you would upgrade to the X6 over the X4 is because both the Axe-FX and the Kemper would both have digital connections. Realistically though, you won't be using both at the same time, so you could just get a simple rca switcher have them share a single adat i/o pair, in which case you wouldn't need the X6.

Bypassing the Axe-FX to use a modeler plugin on your computer is quite simple in any of the configurations in the recording guide, so I wouldn't worry about that. See the "Monitor through DAW" topic in the guide.
Click to expand...
I see, i see. Yes, thanks. I didn't realise Kemper could do Digital IN/Out also.... I actually dont own one yet and wouldn't bother but a friend is letting his powered Unit go for £750 with some cosmetic damage. So can't really pass it up....though I doubt it'll get as much time as the others. And you're quite right, i'd never be using more than one at once So I could just do with one set of Digital Outs on the UA..

Main thing is I just want to avoid having to rewire everything if I wake up one day and think "ok I really want to record with the Axe fx3 today, or on another day, thinking "i'd love to spend a day recording with Neural DSP or Kemper" etc. I just want it to be super flexible so I dont get bummed out by the configuration part every time I want to try a different thing, if that makes sense.

By the way, and apologies for a silly question - Reamping?

thanks again
 
Re-amping is the process of choosing your tone after recording your guitar. It's one of the more powerful aspects of using a digital modeler. To quote from the recording guide:
The basic idea to re-amping is: when you record, you record a second track with input from usb channel 5 (channel 3 on the FM3) at the same time that you record the processed output from the Axe-FX. This second track will have the DI (Direct Inject), which is the audio from your guitar before it is processed by the Axe-FX.

By doing this, you can record without committing to a final guitar tone because you can send the DI back through the Axe-FX at a later time to experiment with different presets. This frees you to record a guitar performance without worrying about whether you have the right tone dialed in. You can keep the processed audio you recorded or you can re-amp to replace it with a different tone. Record now, choose the tone later.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Ah I see. Never done that with the Axe FX actually. Done it on a friend's setup using the Neural DSP VSTS. Maybe that's slightly different but the same in principle as what you're describing. It's just the signal that got recorded and you can tweak everything in post.

As said, never done that on the Axe but loosely related a friend did come round a few years ago helping me record with my axe fx2 mk2. On that day he ran in parallel my Mic'd cab along side DI'ing from the axe2 to the audio interface he brought with him, I think he used XLR's for that. Then headphones from the audio interface so I could hear what it was hearing.... The cleans sounded fantastic, blending the D.I and mic together. Whether that would've let us muck about with it in post I cant remember but mentioning as im hoping config5 would be able to deal with that sort of setup too (recording mic'd cab and DI together)
 
The instructions for configuration #5 apply to any console app. Recording the DI is pretty simple...just route the guitar input to a usb channel so it can be recorded on your computer. For best results, note the instructions about level balancing.
 
GlennO said:
The instructions for configuration #5 apply to any console app. Recording the DI is pretty simple...just route the guitar input to a usb channel so it can be recorded on your computer. For best results, note the instructions about level balancing.
Click to expand...
my issue is getting the di channel to send out to spdif to the fractal. I can record the DI just fine
 
If I make my DI channels output to spdif, both my spdif return and the DI channel are the axeFX. Obviously not desired behavior. I have 4 sends per channel in UA console but can’t see how to set up a send to spdif.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom