GreatGreen
Power User
So I think I might have stumbled across a technique that allows Axe-Fx FRFR rigs to get very close, if not surpass amp-in-the-room tones altogether. It has definitely made my Axe II + CLR rig sound bigger and better in the room to me than my Axe II -> tube poweramp -> 2x12 rig after A/B testing for "in the room" tones, which I think is saying something.
Basically, a lot of people think you just can't get an FRFR rig running an amp and cab simulation to sound like an amp in the room. They say that to get a room-filling 4x12 or 2x12-esque "lots of surface area moving lots of air" sound and feel, you simply need a real guitar cab driving multiple speakers and nothing else will do. Well, I don't agree. There's nothing magical about a guitar cab. From what I've found, that "magical" pants-shaking feeling being talked about is nothing more than... bass. The really powerful, bassy kind of bass, as in somewhere around 110 hz and below. That's what most 2x12 and 4x12 cabs naturally produce lots of that most people who use them really feel when they play through them, and it's what people who use FRFR systems usually miss out on. I think it's pretty much that simple.
The problem with getting room filing sound with Axe-Fx FRFR rigs is that most guys seem to just dial up an Amp block and Cab block onto the grid and go from there. This will no doubt make for a great mix-ready sound, but the problem with this is that most Cab IRs tend to cut out all the sub bass, which guitar cabs do produce lots of, so naturally you're going to have a significant differential between a Cab IR and a cab. Why this happens I'm not sure. Maybe because guitar speakers (the things most often mic'd when capturing IRs) don't actually produce all that much bass and instead the room shaking bass comes from the resonance of the top, bottom, side, and back walls of the cab, which act as their own low frequency "speakers" reacting from the vibrations of the "actual" speakers mounted in front. I'm not really sure. All I know is that cabs tend to have all this low frequency complexity going on while cab IRs just... kind of don't.
So how do we get around this?
It's actually pretty simple, really. We add back the bass. You can't add it with EQ after the cab IR though because it has already cut out most of the low bass from the signal completely. Instead, start by finding your Amp and Cab blocks and placing a Filter block on the grid in parallel with your Cab block. Then, route your Amp block straight to the Filter block, bypassing the Cab block.
From here, change the Filter Type to "Lowpass," change Order parameter to "4th" for a sharper frequency cutoff, and set the Frequency value to somewhere between 110 and 120 hz or to taste. From here, route your Filter block back into the chain after your Cab block and set the Filter block's volume using the Level parameter (not the Gain parameter), and adjust the level until you've added enough low end back into your signal.
That's it, you're done! Your previously mix-ready tone is now a room filling monster that can give you all the amp in the room, pants shaking sound and feelings you can stand. And whether or not this sounds literally exactly like your favorite real life amp and cab in the room, I can guarantee you it is every bit as fun to play.
Personally, I've found my favorite patches setup this way and played through the CLRs definitely sound and feel way better "in the room" to me than my actual amps sound and feel in the room. It's kind of unreal.
edit:
H3O2 got it exactly right a few posts down. This is all there is to it!
Basically, a lot of people think you just can't get an FRFR rig running an amp and cab simulation to sound like an amp in the room. They say that to get a room-filling 4x12 or 2x12-esque "lots of surface area moving lots of air" sound and feel, you simply need a real guitar cab driving multiple speakers and nothing else will do. Well, I don't agree. There's nothing magical about a guitar cab. From what I've found, that "magical" pants-shaking feeling being talked about is nothing more than... bass. The really powerful, bassy kind of bass, as in somewhere around 110 hz and below. That's what most 2x12 and 4x12 cabs naturally produce lots of that most people who use them really feel when they play through them, and it's what people who use FRFR systems usually miss out on. I think it's pretty much that simple.
The problem with getting room filing sound with Axe-Fx FRFR rigs is that most guys seem to just dial up an Amp block and Cab block onto the grid and go from there. This will no doubt make for a great mix-ready sound, but the problem with this is that most Cab IRs tend to cut out all the sub bass, which guitar cabs do produce lots of, so naturally you're going to have a significant differential between a Cab IR and a cab. Why this happens I'm not sure. Maybe because guitar speakers (the things most often mic'd when capturing IRs) don't actually produce all that much bass and instead the room shaking bass comes from the resonance of the top, bottom, side, and back walls of the cab, which act as their own low frequency "speakers" reacting from the vibrations of the "actual" speakers mounted in front. I'm not really sure. All I know is that cabs tend to have all this low frequency complexity going on while cab IRs just... kind of don't.
So how do we get around this?
It's actually pretty simple, really. We add back the bass. You can't add it with EQ after the cab IR though because it has already cut out most of the low bass from the signal completely. Instead, start by finding your Amp and Cab blocks and placing a Filter block on the grid in parallel with your Cab block. Then, route your Amp block straight to the Filter block, bypassing the Cab block.
From here, change the Filter Type to "Lowpass," change Order parameter to "4th" for a sharper frequency cutoff, and set the Frequency value to somewhere between 110 and 120 hz or to taste. From here, route your Filter block back into the chain after your Cab block and set the Filter block's volume using the Level parameter (not the Gain parameter), and adjust the level until you've added enough low end back into your signal.
That's it, you're done! Your previously mix-ready tone is now a room filling monster that can give you all the amp in the room, pants shaking sound and feelings you can stand. And whether or not this sounds literally exactly like your favorite real life amp and cab in the room, I can guarantee you it is every bit as fun to play.
Personally, I've found my favorite patches setup this way and played through the CLRs definitely sound and feel way better "in the room" to me than my actual amps sound and feel in the room. It's kind of unreal.
edit:
H3O2 got it exactly right a few posts down. This is all there is to it!
Last edited:
