Checking FM3 has all the features I'll need (vs FM9/AxeFX3) in terms of feel/realism

A

alligatorlizard

Member
Hi,

Planning to enter the Fractal universe, most likely via an FM3. Have been doing a lot of googling re. features it lacks that the FM9 or AxeFX3 have, and I'm fairly certain the FM3 will do all I need. However, thought I'd check there's nothing I'm missing, and that none of the missing features are things I might end up wishing I had!

Firstly, can I just double-check whether I can control the looper (record/stop/start) with the 3 pedal switches? From what I saw on the wiki it looks like you can, but if not, I'll need to budget for an additional foot-controller (or consider the FM9 if that enables this), as I find a looper pretty essential for sound-tweaking (that or 3 arms ;))

I'm fine with only one amp and cab block - I just want basic amp sounds, maybe with a drive pedal and few stomp fx. I'll be using it for recording, so will likely deal with most post-fx in the DAW.

My main concern is realism and feel. As I understand, the amp-sims in the FM3 are EXACTLY the same as for AxeFX3 - so I'm guessing the realism is covered(?)

But I have a few questions regarding the feel as opposed to the more powerful units:

1) Input dynamics - I understand these have been left out as non-essential as it's not something real amps have, but it does sound like it could be a useful feature. Does anyone who's used this feature on the larger units find that it's really worth having? Or should I be adequately able to control the dynamics, if needed, with compression and/or input trim?

2) Auto impedance level - from what I've read, the default impedance is the same on all units, but the FM9/AxeFX3 offer the option to modify impedance to match the real-world behaviour of certain stomp-fx (fuzz, possibly some others?) - again, is this something that's really going to make much of a difference when dialing in basic amp tones? And is it only related to stomp pedals, or is it sometimes useful to change the impedance for different amps?

As are as I can tell, these are the only missing features that could possibly affect feel. However there are two other "missing" features that sound like they could possibly be useful:

a) cab smoothing - on KPA, I find the "cab character" parameter very useful, and it sounds like this is similar - presumably smoothing the IR freq graph - tho often on the KPA I feel like I'm having to use it to compensate for a slightly "spiky" profile... hence hoping I won't need it with the ability to actually dial in my own tones - but does anyone find this parameter is useful on Fractal units?

b) bias tremolo - sounds like this is a bit more of an effect than something you'd need to dial in a convincing real amp tone - tho it seems to be quite popular - but again, for the needs I've described, will I really miss it? After all there are plenty of other modulation effects if I want to add something interesting to the sound.

And are there any differences I've missed that I should consider?

Sorry for so many questions, any advice much appreciated!
 
I don't have much typing time, so please forgive the brevity.

My needs are very simple:

  • Amp*
  • Cab*
  • Delays
  • Drives*
  • Trem
  • Leslie

* Must be credible replacements for actual gear (that's the kicker).

The FM3 delivers easily. Full stop.

I'm not familiar with the KPA gear but I can't imagine you missing anything feel wise. I have always been impressed by the 'feel' of the fractal gear. YMMV, but I don't think you'd have an issue dialing in what you're hearing in your head and feeling in your fingers. I'm a biased fan boy, but jump in, you'll be annoyed you didn't do it sooner.

Bias trem is there as an effect if you'd like it and yes on the looper. I use it all day long.
 
1. You can achieve basically the same thing as Input Dynamics with a compressor block in front of the amp block. I have the Axe III and never use the Input Dynamics settings.

2. This pertains more to recreating certain vintage stomp boxes in front of the amp. Tube amps and most all modern stomp boxes typically have a quite high input impedance so the default 1 Megaohm impedance is just fine for that. Mine stays on the default 1 Megaohm 99% of the time.

a. Cab Smoothing can be helpful for taming really peaky IRs, but I almost never use it. I'm more likely to just choose a different IR instead. With Dyna Cabs I have no need for it at all as I can just move the mic a bit or switch mics.

b. Bias Tremolo is simply an old school way to create tremolo sounds in some early vintage tube amps. Far more amps use optical tremolo which is available in the Trem/Pan block along with a bias tremolo simulation that also sounds great. I find the Trem/Pan block easier to use and more flexible.

Yes you can certainly control the Looper with the 3 footswitches. You also have the option of adding more external switches via the pedal inputs or even adding an FC-6 or FC-12 for even more control options down the road. The FM3 actually has a leg up on the Axe III in this regard as its pedal inputs support two switches each via a TRS cable while the Axe III and FM9's pedal inputs only support one switch each.

While the models used by the Axe III and FM3 are basically the same, the Axe III does use more oversampling in its amp processing, resulting in a bit less aliasing. In practice the audible difference between the two is very subtle and often indistinguishable. The FM3 also does not support the full length of UltraRes IRs. They are truncated to a bit shorter length giving a little bit less resolution in the low end. Again at guitar frequencies the difference is usually quite subtle. (Correction: UltraRes support was added to the FM3 in later FW versions.) The Axe III also has faster switching times for presets and scenes, but the FM3 is still perfectly usable in that regard.
 
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Real basic setup. Straight up playing and recording at home. That is exactly how I use my FM3 and have never thought about those features. Works and sounds fantastic.
 
kptkarl said:
Real basic setup. Straight up playing and recording at home. That is exactly how I use my FM3 and have never thought about those features. Works and sounds fantastic.
Click to expand...
Old school Led Zep, classic rock, what used to be called New Wave, and frankly anything else my lizard brain comes up with. That's what I'm replicating since in four decades of gigging, I've never used two amps and I don't like fighting gear (menu navigating in a gig).

It's all in there quite nicely and FWIW, I passed when my name came up for the FM9, thought about ditching the FM3 for the FM3 Turbo, and quickly decided to stick with my beloved FM3. The least that I need to carry for a gig is what I want the FM3 to do. Every time I overcomplicate things, I wind up shooting myself in the gig. KISS for me and I'm a happy fella.

If you want a killer raw tone with enough effects to keep you from gassing, you won't be disappointed.

YMMV and Way more power to those with complex setups.
 
I think you would be fine with the fm3 it's a great unit, I love mine. The looper control how ever, I prefer external switches. Because of the double duty action of the fm3 foot switches, looper functions act in the release of the switch not the press. This I could not get a grasp on. But then again I may not be setting it up correctly, the fm3 has a lot of tweakable settings for everything.
 
You do have the option to expand the unit with a two button external switch and an expression pedal or four buttons that do everything the onboard buttons can do.

You can also add a midi controller like the midi baby (very small) to act as an expression pedal interface so you can have 4 stand in switches and expression. Other midi controllers can also add additional buttons (although those are a little more limited). This is now i use mine.
 
I was recently in the privileged position of having both the FM3 and a Quad Cortex in my possession. I dialled up a vox preset on both units. Playing through the QC was great. Good sound, responsive, nothing wrong. Then I played the same setup through my FM3. I was struck by how connected I felt. I’m not sure how to quantify or define it, it just felt much better. Sound wise, it’s in the ears of the beholder and up for discussion, both machines do a fantastic job of recreating amp sounds.

I just sold the QC, not because it’s an inferior product, but simply because, in terms of feel, it doesn’t match the FM3.
 
paranoid said:
Because of the double duty action of the fm3 foot switches, looper functions act in the release of the switch not the press.
Click to expand...
The switches are only double duty when you choose so. By setting switch hold functions to 'Unassigned', and disabling the MLM-switch-combo, all switches will act on tap (on press).

(You may still want more switches/functions in your case, for instance to navigate to another layout.)
 
md1234 said:
The switches are only double duty when you choose so. By setting switch hold functions to 'Unassigned', and disabling the MLM-switch-combo, all switches will act on tap (on press).

(You may still want more switches/functions in your case, for instance to navigate to another layout.)
Click to expand...
Do you know if there is a way to have them single acting only for looper rec,stop,start, and still be double acting to choose scenes,presets,pedal on,off,tuner. There's just so many functions and so few switches.
 
Highly recommend external switches and / or a midi controller. This is my current rig. 4 stand in switches (each selects a Dif view) gives me one tap access to 12 onboard switches. The MIDI controller acts as an expression pedal interface and gives me 4 additional buttons (which I use as Tuner, Preset -, Preset +, and toggles between my current gigging preset and Cooper Carter's awesome Sound on Sound preset (for Ha has).IMG_0960.jpeg
 
mr_fender said:
While the models used by the Axe III and FM3 are basically the same, the Axe III does use more oversampling in its amp processing, resulting in a bit less aliasing. In practice the audible difference between the two is very subtle and often indistinguishable.
Click to expand...

Curious where this is documented.
 
paranoid said:
Do you know if there is a way to have them single acting only for looper rec,stop,start, and still be double acting to choose scenes,presets,pedal on,off,tuner. There's just so many functions and so few switches.
Click to expand...
Yes. Remove any Hold function from the switch settings in the layout where they are defined.

This is entirely a per switch thing.
 
unix-guy said:
Yes. Remove any Hold function from the switch settings in the layout where they are defined.

This is entirely a per switch thing.
Click to expand...
Ok, thank you. I will have to study this and see if I can make the looper switches single and still find a way back to preset and scene pages.
 
paranoid said:
Ok, thank you. I will have to study this and see if I can make the looper switches single and still find a way back to preset and scene pages.
Click to expand...
Otherwise you can just tap the switches faster.

The switch fires on release when there's a Hold function also on there.

So if you tap and release quickly it may work ok.
 
mr_fender said:
1. You can achieve basically the same thing as Input Dynamics with a compressor block in front of the amp block. I have the Axe III and never use the Input Dynamics settings.

2. This pertains more to recreating certain vintage stomp boxes in front of the amp. Tube amps and most all modern stomp boxes typically have a quite high input impedance so the default 1 Megaohm impedance is just fine for that. Mine stays on the default 1 Megaohm 99% of the time.

a. Cab Smoothing can be helpful for taming really peaky IRs, but I almost never use it. I'm more likely to just choose a different IR instead. With Dyna Cabs I have no need for it at all as I can just move the mic a bit or switch mics.

b. Bias Tremolo is simply an old school way to create tremolo sounds in some early vintage tube amps. Far more amps use optical tremolo which is available in the Trem/Pan block along with a bias tremolo simulation that also sounds great. I find the Trem/Pan block easier to use and more flexible.

Yes you can certainly control the Looper with the 3 footswitches. You also have the option of adding more external switches via the pedal inputs or even adding an FC-6 or FC-12 for even more control options down the road. The FM3 actually has a leg up on the Axe III in this regard as its pedal inputs support two switches each via a TRS cable while the Axe III and FM9's pedal inputs only support one switch each.

While the models used by the Axe III and FM3 are basically the same, the Axe III does use more oversampling in its amp processing, resulting in a bit less aliasing. In practice the audible difference between the two is very subtle and often indistinguishable. The FM3 also does not support the full length of UltraRes IRs. They are truncated to a bit shorter length giving a little bit less resolution in the low end. Again at guitar frequencies the difference is usually quite subtle. (Correction: UltraRes support was added to the FM3 in later FW versions.) The Axe III also has faster switching times for presets and scenes, but the FM3 is still perfectly usable in that regard.
Click to expand...

Thanks, very useful, all questions answered!

Re. the cab smoothing, I've noticed on the Kemper I tend to set this per profile, not per IR (e.g. the same IR might need no smoothing with a one profile, benefit from it with another), so I think I'm really just using it as another available tool to try and refine less-than-perfect profiles - and that's kind of the problem with the Kemper... unless you make the profile yourself, it's never going to be quite perfect, as will have been designed with different gtr/pickups/ears etc. Hence why planning to get an FM3 - often difficult to find the sounds you need on a Kemper, and anyway I far prefer the workflow of modelers, being able to dial in tone from scratch. The only drawback I've found with modelers and modeling software I've used in the past is that I've never felt the realism or feel has been convincing. However, by all accounts, Fractal seems to have this covered, so if I'm going to try another modeler, FM3 seems the way to go.
 
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