Can't easily navigate thru presets on a 2500 bucks flooboard? Seriously?

[g.lolo3]

Just to say it, personally I don't need to navigate through hundreds of presets live. If you're putting on a show, you can be better organized than that.

What I do want is easy access to a smaller subset. Showing them in banks, with single press access to the presets in the current bank, and close access to other nearby banks, works well for that. I can't imagine knowing the order of hundreds of presets so well that rapid scrolling through all of them would be very useful.

If your main issue is how many characters show in the mini displays, that's mostly a physical limitation, only changeable with a new generation of the hardware. A narrower font might be possible, but that'd only get you a few more characters, max, in exchange for potentially worse legibility.

Indeed setlists are great improvment for this.
But sometimes you would play a song out of the setlist. If your presets are well organized this is not an issue to find them.
Having more than 10 caracters is already available on the main screen.

 

[g.lolo3]

It is clear now that it can't do what you want. I suggest you make a wish for this with a clear description of what you want and why.

Done

 

[hitmusic]

So nobody seems to agree....

To be clear I use Fractal product for nearly 15 years. Starting with the Ultra, then the AX8, then the FM9. Spending hundred of hours to tweak sounds with pretty satisfying results, allow me to learn lot of things about sound. I really like many a lot of the wonderful things that Fractal provide to us, speaking about sound quality and flexibility. So I'm not at all a "forum fanatic" but neither a newbie.

But we can really like a product/brand and make some constructive criticism don't we?

If we are honest the UX on the units (not speaking about edit software) has never been the main advantage of Fractal.

I'm a live player, to me the AX8 was a really good step on live usability.
The main "flaws" on the FM9 for me are:

• Not (for now) being able to navigate thru presets by foot with an easily readable list and more than 10 caracters to identify a preset
• When in effect mode the main screen does not display the edit page of the corresponding effect of the last pressed switch. Making a pain in the ass to edit on the fly (depending of the gig I sometimes use 80 presets in a gig or only one like a traditionnal pedalboard)

This 2 points were already implemented on the AX8 so I had even not imagine that these features would not be there on the FM9. It's like a regression to me.

• No custom labels by channel on mini-lcd, so we have to remember what setting was affected to each channel

On the paper the FM9 seems to be another step; More power, switchs layouts, more IOs (Headphones output for travel usage), USB Soundcard, named scenes, color screen, more channels, mini LCD, setlists... But in reality I'm disappointed on the UX point for now. May be I need to get used to another "workflow". That was the primary goal of my this thread, because I know there are plenty of really good players and users on the forum.

So sorry guys if I offense some of you by telling the product is not perfect. I hope some would give solutions or maybe Fractal will make updates...

Ok, I don't have time to get into a long debate but what you describe here is also my experience (including the years with the fractal products) so for me this is really a live performance issue.

Essentially I like the AX8 implementation for selecting presets (hit a button, get a list of 8 presets on the screen, hit the corresponding button or bank up/down - see the next 8) - I guess its more visual for me to scan presets. I used this unit live for many years and getting from A-Z presets was relatively pain free.

I struggled to translate this on the FM9 when making the switch but ended up with what has generally been described previously with the 'enter preset mode' use bank up/dwn with preset names on the bottom selection switches, then back into scene/pedal mode.

I play a live jukebox of over 100 songs so i never know what song is coming next when playing live. This means quick preset selection is key, so currently on the FM9 getting from A-Z is a mission with numerous presses of various presets.

I was very much hoping sets and setlists would be my solution but it doesn't work for me for a similar reason. I like the selecting scenes from different presets, that's really cool but unlike most people who can craft a known set list before the gig, I can't do that so it becomes just as difficult.

Anyway, I love the fractal products even if the unit UI has never been to my liking, do I wish they covered my use case perfect...of course, however these days I just accept that my use case is a little odd and move on with my day.

 

[g.lolo3]

Ok, I don't have time to get into a long debate but what you describe here is also my experience (including the years with the fractal products) so for me this is really a live performance issue.

Essentially I like the AX8 implementation for selecting presets (hit a button, get a list of 8 presets on the screen, hit the corresponding button or bank up/down - see the next 8) - I guess its more visual for me to scan presets. I used this unit live for many years and getting from A-Z presets was relatively pain free.

I struggled to translate this on the FM9 when making the switch but ended up with what has generally been described previously with the 'enter preset mode' use bank up/dwn with preset names on the bottom selection switches, then back into scene/pedal mode.

I play a live jukebox of over 100 songs so i never know what song is coming next when playing live. This means quick preset selection is key, so currently on the FM9 getting from A-Z is a mission with numerous presses of various presets.

I was very much hoping sets and setlists would be my solution but it doesn't work for me for a similar reason. I like the selecting scenes from different presets, that's really cool but unlike most people who can craft a known set list before the gig, I can't do that so it becomes just as difficult.

Anyway, I love the fractal products even if the unit UI has never been to my liking, do I wish they covered my use case perfect...of course, however these days I just accept that my use case is a little odd and move on with my day.

Thanks for your feedback. Good to feel that I'm not alone...

I use many "modes":

- FX mode like a traditionnal pedalboard. When I'm playing Blues and Jazz. For this I miss the config page to be display when I press a switch (that was there on the AX8) to make adjustments nearly as easily as on analog pedals and a custom label by channel on the mini LCD to avoid remember which effect was set on which channel. With 4 channels for dozen FX types in 3/4 presets you can easily make mistakes.

- Presets modes with my covers band. For this, setlists are a good improvment because the songs played and order never change during a show. Scenes can also be used but as I play in a Pink Floyd cover band, 8 scenes are often not enough for a song. So I mostly use 1 preset for 1 sound and have to name them carefuly. For example "SYOC PT4 LD m5 V3" (I write the mic to be used in the name and a version number) so 10 caracters are not enough to identify a sound.

- A mix of both in another band. There is a base setlist, for some songs I use the pedalboard approch which is "enough" and for others dedicated presets, sometimes using scenes. But a bit as you, order and played songs can change on the fly so I have to be able to find a preset quickly. If they are well ordered it's not an issue.

Like I wrote and like you I really like Fractal products but I'm disappointed to see that some improvments that were made on the AX8 are gone away on the 9. I've bought a pedalboard for live usage not a AxeFx to use in studio.

Moreover these features are nearly already implemented (preset list, settings pages, custom labels) and it seems so much easy to just display them at the press of some switch compared to make really amazing sounding models of amps and pedals (I've been software developper too).

So I really hope Fractal will make these small adjustments to have a more user friendly product in live situation.

 

[md1234]

10 caracters are not enough

What is your idea (sorry if i missed that) to solve this, use a smaller font in the mini-displays so it can contain more characters?

Maybe you use a placeholder preset, followed by actual versions? I use placeholder presets (in fact an empty preset that is saved with a name) to identify different events. Those are directly followed by the songs for that event.
In your case you could perhaps do something like:
#31 Placeholder preset "ShineOn PT4"
#32 Preset "LD m5 V2"
#33 Preset "LD m5 V3"
#34 ---
#35 Placeholder preset "AnothrBrck"
#36 Preset "Intro m5 V2"
etc.

I have also seen presets that used Scene names as kind of a notepad. In the main display one can see all the info that is written in the scenenames.

Just some ideas... but they might not be of any help, i don't know.

 

[Chromatizm]

I play a live jukebox of over 100 songs so i never know what song is coming next when playing live

Will you be able to use the https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fractool-for-power-users-only.112538/ or https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-xl-xl-ax8-fx8-axe-fx-iii-and-fm3-fm9.120946/ with the tablet near you? It might be even faster than using device UI/buttons, plus you can have a preset layout displayed on the screen when playing.
I know it's a workaround, but seems like a decent one, wdyt?

 

[sick pickle]

Just throwing my 2 cents - this is a non issue. Like @Dave Merrill states - if you are a putting on a show/performing live, you can be more organized. The device allows multiple ways to be organized.

 

[Stratman68]

So let's help the OP out, can we?

IIRC navigate to FC-Edit, then FC Config. Select Bank Size. (This determines the number of presets in any and all banks at one given time.). Come back to FC-Edit and across the bottom row of 5 switches within the preset layout, Select Category: Preset; Select in Bank; Preset (#); 2nd Press = Prev Preset: OFF.

Note that Preset represented is preset 2 in my 1st user bank. I seldom need sample the factory presets and prefer to build my own. Be sure to set up your switch presets so that they represent presets 1 thru 5 within your bank of 5. Use a separate switch to tap/hold bank+1/-1. You may need to set limits for your banks and wrap them so you won't find yourself venturing off into the Bermuda Triangle.

HMMM? I thought I pretty much said that-With easy to understand language?

 

[unix-guy]

In Europe it is.

I didn't realize that Europe used the term "bucks"...

Anyway the FM9 should be one of the best digital floorboard available and should be better on most point than its previous generation don't you agree?
And it is on many aspects,. but it also have some regressions to.me....

Here is my take: the FM9 is not the AX8, nor was it really designed to replace it.

There are features from the AX8 that are not in any current generation Fractal product.

I changed the initial title of the thread to a more offensive sentence to have more reactions.

Ok, so you're just trolling, then?

I'm out... This kind of behavior deserves no attention.

 

[g.lolo3]

Will you be able to use the https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fractool-for-power-users-only.112538/ or https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-xl-xl-ax8-fx8-axe-fx-iii-and-fm3-fm9.120946/ with the tablet near you? It might be even faster than using device UI/buttons, plus you can have a preset layout displayed on the screen when playing.
I know it's a workaround, but seems like a decent one, wdyt?

Thanks I never tried solutions like these because I don't trust midi over bluetooth on stage but I may be wrong.
I'll give it a try!

 

[g.lolo3]

HMMM? I thought I pretty much said that-With easy to understand language?

I've read your answer many times but it don't understand how it will help to navigate quickly thru hundred (well ordered) presets. So may be I miss something...

 

[g.lolo3]

What is your idea (sorry if i missed that) to solve this, use a smaller font in the mini-displays so it can contain more characters?

Maybe you use a placeholder preset, followed by actual versions? I use placeholder presets (in fact an empty preset that is saved with a name) to identify different events. Those are directly followed by the songs for that event.
In your case you could perhaps do something like:
#31 Placeholder preset "ShineOn PT4"
#32 Preset "LD m5 V2"
#33 Preset "LD m5 V3"
#34 ---
#35 Placeholder preset "AnothrBrck"
#36 Preset "Intro m5 V2"
etc.

I have also seen presets that used Scene names as kind of a notepad. In the main display one can see all the info that is written in the scenenames.

Just some ideas... but they might not be of any help, i don't know.

The simplest solution for me would be to be able to display and navigate thru presets list without the screen being always stuck on the presets list or having to change preset to scroll thru the list. But it seems that it would need an update from Fractal...

 

[g.lolo3]

Just throwing my 2 cents - this is a non issue. Like @Dave Merrill states - if you are a putting on a show/performing live, you can be more organized. The device allows multiple ways to be organized.

Like @hitmusic and me wrote depending the way you (or the band) decide to choose songs when playing live you would have to navigate thru hundred of (well organised) presets.
It's not because it is not an issue for you that it is not an issue for anybody.
On this range of products I'll would like to able to use easily in any kind of situations (like I did with the 8).
But I'm not stupid I understand that most of you guys seem to don't miss this feature.
So I don't have so much hope for an update from Fractal.

Thanks a lot to those who give ideas of workaround !

 

[Sleestak]

Thanks I never tried solutions like these because I don't trust midi over bluetooth on stage but I may be wrong.
I'll give it a try!

I can comment on this aspect of the discussion. The CME WIDI products (see https://www.cme-pro.com/) are very reliable and stable. I use an AxeFX III with an RJM Mastermind GT16 controller, linked with a pair of WIDI Master devices. I use this system on large stages on tour, in venues with busy network and Bluetooth networks, and it has been flawless. For me, this eliminated the single most fragile comms link in my live rig: the 7 pin MIDI cable that carried power and bidirectional MIDI between the pedalboard and rack. In switching from the cable to to WIDI meant I had to move the GT16 power supply to the pedalboard, but that was a small trade given the flexibility I now have. I can't guarantee this will work in every possible situation, but my exprience has been great.