Can I have some great reverb, please?

H

Happybear

Member
I bought my Axe-Fx std 3 months ago and I'm more than satisfied with it. Amp simulations are the best I've ever heard. But I'm not satisfied with the reverb. No, it isn't bad, it's even good but when you compare its quality to the quality of other Fractal's effects - it isn't the same league. My reverb of choice was the Lexicon LXP 15 II for some years . It's a little bit outdated device now, but it sounds really good - not far from older PCM series reverb. I expected that Fractal would sound even better...
I was wrong. When, after 2 months of using the Axe-Fx, I connected Lexicon again (I put it between the Axe-Fx and mixing desk), I said 'wow, what a good reverb'. Then, I bypassed the Lexicon and turned Axe's reverb on again. What a dissapointment ! The reverb was just OK, not very good, and surely not great at all. It's good enough for recording, 'sits' well in the mix, but it is characterless. When I turned on my old Lexicon and put the plate pre-set - it sounded deep, clear and classy. When I tried to catch that sound on the Axe-Fx, the sound was not as spacious but too wet and less dynamic. I spent some days comparing the parameters, and trying to get a big reverb sound out of my Fractal. And I gave up.
I could not get that big, spacious reverb sound (think 'Need yout love so bad' - Peter Green or Gary Moore). The reverb sounds good only when you need a little bit of air in your guitar sound. But when you really need a reverb with guts - there is nothing like this. I don't know why. For sure, the Axe-Fx has enough computing power to do that. Maybe the reverb algorithms need some development? Of course, I can still use my Lexicon, but I have bought the Axe-Fx to simplify my rig, not to maximize it. So I would like to get really good reverb out of the Axe-Fx. Is it possible?
 
I have to agree with this. I've refrained from passing comment because I'd assumed my disappointment with the reverb was due to my processing all my signals in mono but perhaps there's more grounds for criticism than I thought. I find it very difficult to get sonic separation between the dry and wet sounds. Usually I end up adding more reverb than I really want just to make it audible but then it ends up sounding soupy. Anyone have any tips to share?
 
Hi!
I'm not a tweaking specialist and especially not for reverb. Only to make sure: did you ever try to set the reverb in a parallel row and Mix 100% and control the wetness with the level?
I use this "trick" with reverb & delay and it works very well for me.
To be honest: it's not my idea, it came from the forum here. :p

Have fun!

Micha
 
Have you tried placing the reverb block in another position? For example between de amp and cab.
 
rodabt said:
Have you tried placing the reverb block in another position? For example between de amp and cab.
Click to expand...
Good point. BTW mine is always the last in the row. I like it like that. :cool:
In the wiki there's an emulation of a PCM70. Don't know if this helps. :?:

Micha
 
michl_666 said:
Hi!
I'm not a tweaking specialist and especially not for reverb. Only to make sure: did you ever try to set the reverb in a parallel row and Mix 100% and control the wetness with the level?
I use this "trick" with reverb & delay and it works very well for me.
To be honest: it's not my idea, it came from the forum here. :p

Have fun!

Micha
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I will try it out. I have already done it with the delay and it works well. But the quality of the reverb is still an issue. I have or had some other gear with the same problem: old Roland VG-8, Boss GX-700 and Line6 POD. The reverb in all those units is good but nothing special. Axe-Fx is a groundbreaking device and the lack of excellent reverb (like the one in my old Lexicon LXP-15 II) is frustrating.
 
This is going to come as bad news, but if it's the old Lexi style you like you're going to need an Ultra or keep your Lexi. The ultra reverb block has a diffusor in it. That was added after Cliff had an epiphany from an old tech article from the engineers that were a part of the old Lexicon sound. Sadly, the standard didn't have enough memory to handle the diffusor, so it's only available in the Ultra. The lexi parameters in the Wiki are for the Ultra. I have the standard, and while I've been able to get verbs that made me perfectly happy, I have to admit they aren't up to the PCM standards. The diffusion is the key to that reverb style, and only the Ultra has it.

D
 
michl_666 said:
In the wiki there's an emulation of a PCM70.
Click to expand...

I've programmed this up and I really like it ! The caveat is, I've never owned or played through a "real" PCM-70, so YRMV ....
 
I know you guys are going to kill me for this, but I have to side Happybear on this: I bought my Ultra about a month ago, and maybe didn't explore it exhaustively yet, but reverb is ok, not great. And so I would say of intelligent pitch shifter. My plan was, up to some time ago, buy the Ultra and replace a bunch of racks among which a TC Electronic G-Force. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my purchase, but the G-Force is staying. The Ultra is still not beating it on the above things.
 
dk_ace said:
This is going to come as bad news, but if it's the old Lexi style you like you're going to need an Ultra or keep your Lexi. The ultra reverb block has a diffusor in it. That was added after Cliff had an epiphany from an old tech article from the engineers that were a part of the old Lexicon sound. Sadly, the standard didn't have enough memory to handle the diffusor, so it's only available in the Ultra. The lexi parameters in the Wiki are for the Ultra. I have the standard, and while I've been able to get verbs that made me perfectly happy, I have to admit they aren't up to the PCM standards. The diffusion is the key to that reverb style, and only the Ultra has it.

D
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice. I think you have recognized the source of the problem. I would keep my old Lexicon, because I don't want to spend more money on buying Ultra. By the way, maybe it is posibble to develop a better sounding reverb algorithm using Axe-FX standard hardware. I'm looking forward to the next system update...
 
Happybear said:
dk_ace said:
This is going to come as bad news, but if it's the old Lexi style you like you're going to need an Ultra or keep your Lexi. The ultra reverb block has a diffusor in it. That was added after Cliff had an epiphany from an old tech article from the engineers that were a part of the old Lexicon sound. Sadly, the standard didn't have enough memory to handle the diffusor, so it's only available in the Ultra. The lexi parameters in the Wiki are for the Ultra. I have the standard, and while I've been able to get verbs that made me perfectly happy, I have to admit they aren't up to the PCM standards. The diffusion is the key to that reverb style, and only the Ultra has it.

D
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice. I think you have recognized the source of the problem. I would keep my old Lexicon, because I don't want to spend more money on buying Ultra. By the way, maybe it is posibble to develop a better sounding reverb algorithm using Axe-FX standard hardware. I'm looking forward to the next system update...
Click to expand...

Better sounding is subjective, but unless Cliff finds a way to further compress parts of the firmware or something like that the Standard reverb will never be up to the Ultra's. I would just keep the Lexi if you like it better and don't want to spring for an Ultra. Don't hold your breath waiting for the standard to get the Lexi verb sound though, Cliff tried it before and wasn't able to fit it in there. There isn't much chance of it happening.

D
 
Count me in as another user who finds the AFX Reverb to be sub-par to the other effects (I have the Ultra) - I tend to think it is more the algorithms than a CPU shortage. For whatever reason, it doesn't sound as open or 'effortless' as Lexicon to my ears. In some instances, I actually like my GT-10's reverb better. There is something a bit unnatural about it - doesn't seem to fit into the soundscape without drawing undo attention to itself. It seems plenty fat & dense, but somehow lacking in spacial subtlety/complexity.

Just my 2¢....
 
A tip I find many folks enjoy: run the reverb as 100% wet parallel and follow it with a slight subtle chorus and parametric equalizer set to shape the tone as you please. (There are of course toneshaping params in the verb, and the pre EQ is indespensible, but having the visual curve on the PEQ is nice.)
 
My only comment would be this: Although chorusing can add complexity and motion to any reverb, it should not be needed to make the reverb sound effective & complete - it seems to me that any quality reverb should sound very good without internal or external chorusing...
 
Radley said:
My only comment would be this: Although chorusing can add complexity and motion to any reverb, it should not be needed to make the reverb sound effective & complete - it seems to me that any quality reverb should sound very good without internal or external chorusing...
Click to expand...

We should understand that it must be incredibly difficult to be captain when navigating your (nearly) fully loaded ship through a narrow rocky strait and the passengers on board each have an opinion in where to go.

In this thread there are posts where people are dissatisfied with the reverb, others who are satisfied, and others who provide some potentially useful tips (which I will try out soon..)

So far, with the axe, I have found that "anything goes" when you want to make things work. I dont get hung up on the ideal that a good sounding reverb should stop with the reverb block. Why else do we have all this fx block routing flexibility? We are given the opportunity to make things work, one way or another. At the end of the day, the sound matters.

Back to my lame opening analogy: we should always welcome improvements when they are presented to us, but already limitations in the standard is holding back further development of the reverb block in this unit. The axe cant on keep improving forever, and Fractal are already making hard decisions prioritising what to improve, because the hardware limitations are being felt.

Im sure that the Axe MkII will sort this out - or will the captain never abandon the ship??

Cheers,
JJunkie
 
I rewrote the reverb for the upcoming firmware. I was also able (with considerable effort) to port it to the standard model as well.

I think you're going to like it. I compared the new reverb to a G-Force, a PCM-70 and various plug-ins and I preferred the Axe-Fx in every case. The one thing I noticed is you can turn the mix up quite a bit and the guitar doesn't get washed out. That's the only way to describe it.

I also redid the spring reverb and I think it sounds really good now.
 
FractalAudio said:
I rewrote the reverb for the upcoming firmware. I was also able (with considerable effort) to port it to the standard model as well.

I think you're going to like it. I compared the new reverb to a G-Force, a PCM-70 and various plug-ins and I preferred the Axe-Fx in every case. The one thing I noticed is you can turn the mix up quite a bit and the guitar doesn't get washed out. That's the only way to describe it.

I also redid the spring reverb and I think it sounds really good now.
Click to expand...


boner. :shock:
 
FractalAudio said:
I rewrote the reverb for the upcoming firmware. I was also able (with considerable effort) to port it to the standard model as well.

I think you're going to like it. I compared the new reverb to a G-Force, a PCM-70 and various plug-ins and I preferred the Axe-Fx in every case. The one thing I noticed is you can turn the mix up quite a bit and the guitar doesn't get washed out. That's the only way to describe it.

I also redid the spring reverb and I think it sounds really good now.
Click to expand...

:shock: In the immortal word of Keanu Reeves, "Whoa!"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom