Call me crazy but...

T

tommycooke

Member
Hey guys. So I'm new to the Fractal Forum. This is my first post so.. Greetings Everybody!

Anyway, I was thinking about different ways an Axe FX reacts to different pickups, and it got me thinking. I would love to see a very interesting modification to the Axe in which in the input section, you can set which type of pickups you are using, giving you optimal tone for each amp. From my understanding, when the amp is modeled, Cliff references the real amp to here any nuances that are different. I mean that's kind of obvious, but that's not my point. My point is, to make sure that any guitar, whether its using an EMG or Seymour, humbucker or single coil, '57 Classics or P 90s, etc, any pickips of a vast variety of brands and styles can be plugged in and it will react exactly how those pickups should react to the real amp.

It's a dream, I know, but it would be an insane implication. Isnt it true that Cliff uses a certain guitar to listen to differences? Wouldn't that mean that some guitars would become inaccurate? Or does he do it in a way where the pickups aren't "listened" to and only the amp is heard? I guess what really makes me wonder is how he can hear what's he doing to create an amp to make any guitar work exactly as it should under any setting.
 
Welcome!

If your trying to adjust the same patch for multiple guitars you can use the input trim on the amp to help with that, at least concerning output You could also use a upfront EQ to mess with the emphasized frequencies. I won't make a humbucker sound like a P-90 or a strat but it'll help. For my higher output pickup I turn the trim knob down, especially for cleans.

Of course if your talking about playing a guitar with a strat and making it sound like the real amp with a strat in front or it. Or the same thing with a humbucker. Well... it already does haha. The amp is basically a digital version of the real life amp and is programmed to respond the way a real life amp would when the guitar signal is being pushed through it.

Basically think of it as a digital circuit rather then a standard simulation which is completely dialed in by ear. Everything that happens to a guitar signal going through the real amp would happen to the digital amp. It's kind of the beauty of the Axe.

Someone with a more technical understanding might be able to help you more but that's my understanding of it. Hopefully I understood your question.
 
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Every pickup - even from the same type - has different output characteristics. Therefor I guess there is no "switch" solution to that problem ..

But if I'm not wrong "input trim" is exactly what you are looking for...
 
I think you don't understand how the Axe FX does its modeling. It reacts to different guitars exactly as a real amp would. Thats the goal anyway.

You should read the MIMIC white paper, it will help you understand what's going on under the hood.
 
tommycooke said:
Hey guys. So I'm new to the Fractal Forum. This is my first post so.. Greetings Everybody!

Anyway, I was thinking about different ways an Axe FX reacts to different pickups, and it got me thinking. I would love to see a very interesting modification to the Axe in which in the input section, you can set which type of pickups you are using, giving you optimal tone for each amp. From my understanding, when the amp is modeled, Cliff references the real amp to here any nuances that are different. I mean that's kind of obvious, but that's not my point. My point is, to make sure that any guitar, whether its using an EMG or Seymour, humbucker or single coil, '57 Classics or P 90s, etc, any pickips of a vast variety of brands and styles can be plugged in and it will react exactly how those pickups should react to the real amp.

It's a dream, I know, but it would be an insane implication. Isnt it true that Cliff uses a certain guitar to listen to differences? Wouldn't that mean that some guitars would become inaccurate? Or does he do it in a way where the pickups aren't "listened" to and only the amp is heard? I guess what really makes me wonder is how he can hear what's he doing to create an amp to make any guitar work exactly as it should under any setting.
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I suppose the axe is meant to simulate the amp, and that amp should respond according to what you send them. in other words, I think if you use a guitar with p90's into an amp sim, that amp sim is going to sound like a guitar with p90 into it and so on.
It would be nice if the axe had a sort of input level block, so that if you were using lots of different guitars with different levels, you could just store the different levels for differen instruments and select the right one per preset (i.e. strat with hot pickups = 0dB, les paul with humbucker = -6dB, tele with vintage pickups = +3dB and so on). Sort of what pro's do with dedicated wireless jacks for each instrument.
 
My brain may be wrong, but isn't there something in the advanced parameters that allows you to set the input up or down on each preset to accommodate for humbucker or singlecoil pickups by like 0.5 on the adjustment to simulate the high or low input jack of the modeled amp?
 
Well my real interest is understanding what he does to only model the amp without coloration from the guitar hes using to create his simulation. It's intriguing really! I have both a Tele and a Schecter C1 series with BK aftermaths so i can get both worlds easily. But one thing Id like to know is if the amps are accurate no matter what you use. If for any reason it doesn't react the same, there could be a way to tell the Axe which pickups are being fed into it, so it can make the correction. Almost like having several different versions of each amp model.
 
tommycooke said:
My point is, to make sure that any guitar, whether its using an EMG or Seymour, humbucker or single coil, '57 Classics or P 90s, etc, any pickips of a vast variety of brands and styles can be plugged in and it will react exactly how those pickups should react to the real amp.
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If I'm reading your 'request/query' correctly, the Axe already does pretty much exactly that.

So it comes off sounding like: "Wouldn't it be amazing if the Axe did this thing it totally already does but I didn't know about?"

As a n00b, maybe you should work with the unit a bit and dig into the reams of technical information Fractal has shared if you are interested in how things work at this level of technical detail. Fractal has been incredibly generous with regard to information concerning their process and methods within the limits of their own self-interest (due to the competitive advantage their technology provides in the marketplace).

I dunno, maybe he will respond to this thread with some more enlightening info; but there is already a ton of back material you should reference if you are interested in learning about the underlying stuff. Start with the whitepapers, release notes, manuals, and Cliffs notes section of this board. Look at the Wiki too. It has reams of good information.
 
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tommycooke said:
Call me crazy but...
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Crazy Butt!!!! :razz






Only Cliff knows his process and can only really answer this, but the amp models are designed to be as accurate as possible to their real world counterparts and I would be surprised if that didn't include them behaving just as they would with any given type of guitar. I think what you are requesting is already an inherent part of the amp models.
 
I've looked into what he does, but unless I AM misunderstanding, he does use a guitar and that guitar would have to make a difference, right? So if hes using a single coil when hes modelling, a humbucker wouldn't sound the same right? Its like taking a tone match that used a different guitar from yours and expecting it to sound the same. It wont. Unless you're using the exact set up.
 
Also don't get me wrong. This thing is a monster and Im extremely satisfied. Through my tele and my schecter. It's perfect. But my main question is about accuracy.
 
tommycooke said:
I've looked into what he does, but unless I AM misunderstanding, he does use a guitar and that guitar would have to make a difference, right? So if hes using a single coil when hes modelling, a humbucker wouldn't sound the same right? Its like taking a tone match that used a different guitar from yours and expecting it to sound the same. It wont. Unless you're using the exact set up.
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Not if you're modeling the behavior of an electrical circuit (amp). Who says he uses a guitar for measurements at all? When you're characterizing an electrical ckt you are going to do it in a lab type setting with signal generators, etc, where you can control the amplitude and frequency content precisely. I'm sure he uses guitars in his process for qualitative checks or some fine tuning but assuming he uses some particular instrument as a primary input in his modeling process is a HUGE assumption.

Why do you think a Kemper sounds like a spaceship landing when it characterizes a rig and not a Les Paul. ;)
 
shredi knight said:
Crazy Butt!!!! :razz






Only Cliff knows his process and can only really answer this, but the amp models are designed to be as accurate as possible to their real world counterparts and I would be surprised if that didn't include them behaving just as they would with any given type of guitar. I think what you are requesting is already an inherent part of the amp models.
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I feel like I haven't seen an explanation or confirmation that when he is done with the amp model, the pickups that were fed through it didn't effect the model he created. Maybe it will take me an erernity to ever get what makes that possible. Make theres a way he has a true bypass which makes which guitar hes using irrelevant.
 
I really believe Cliff knows all this and that it's irrelevant. You are over thinking it in my opinion.

That's like saying I want a Fender Deluxe from Fender and a switch that says Single coil-Seymour Duncan SSL-5, Gibson 57 humbucker, etc, etc.

I seriously doubt that Jim Marshall or leo Fender used a zillion guitars to make their amps. They had to use something, didn't they? Well so does Cliff. For that ,matter I would think that Jim Marshall used mostly HB's guitars and Leo Fender used mostly SC fenders. Just a guess.

Yet those amps are played with every guitar ever made regardless of pickups, strings, configuration, etc, etc.

Pretty simple really. Just play and enjoy- You have the greatest Guitar Hardware of our time-----Have fun-Make Music. Nothing is "incorrect

IMHO of course! :)
 
zenaxe said:
Not if you're modeling the behavior of the circuit. Who says he uses a guitar for measurements? When you're characterizing an electrical ckt you are going to do it in a lab type setting with signal generators, etc. I'm sure he uses guitars in his process but assuming he uses some particular instrument as a primary input in his modeling process is a HUGE assumption.
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Since Cliff is a big EVH fan, I'd say he's using an EVH Frankenstein Strat... Good luck obtaining one of them because they are expensive.

EVH Eddie Van Halen Frankenstein Replica NEW | Guitar Hangar
 
I guess I'm missing the point of this. If you only had one "real amp" to play your Tele and Schecter through, but you left the dials the same on the amp, both guitars and sound drastically different. I don't really feel there's a need for a modification to the input section, because it's just a simple to create a separate preset for each guitar.

As has been suggested before, you should really take some time to work with the unit, read through the Cliff's notes section, and maybe the manual.
 
That's definitely a good point. I guess because of what limitations any average consumer will have, you never know what he has in front of him to create his masterpieces.

With the kemper though, I believe the guitar is included with that setup. Which is why a profile won't always sound good with another guitar.
 
tommycooke said:
Hey guys. So I'm new to the Fractal Forum. This is my first post so.. Greetings Everybody!

Anyway, I was thinking about different ways an Axe FX reacts to different pickups, and it got me thinking. I would love to see a very interesting modification to the Axe in which in the input section, you can set which type of pickups you are using, giving you optimal tone for each amp. From my understanding, when the amp is modeled, Cliff references the real amp to here any nuances that are different. I mean that's kind of obvious, but that's not my point. My point is, to make sure that any guitar, whether its using an EMG or Seymour, humbucker or single coil, '57 Classics or P 90s, etc, any pickips of a vast variety of brands and styles can be plugged in and it will react exactly how those pickups should react to the real amp.

It's a dream, I know, but it would be an insane implication. Isnt it true that Cliff uses a certain guitar to listen to differences? Wouldn't that mean that some guitars would become inaccurate? Or does he do it in a way where the pickups aren't "listened" to and only the amp is heard? I guess what really makes me wonder is how he can hear what's he doing to create an amp to make any guitar work exactly as it should under any setting.
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I haven't read all the other replies, so maybe someone already mentioned this but you can try changing the Input Impedance. It's explained on page 114, Section 5.35.1 in the Owners Manual v15.0.

I kind of have an opposite wish. I wish there were input presets, so I could make most of my guitars sound the same when needed. Here's my post about it: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...o-input-page-presets-level-bass-mid-treb.html
 
tommycooke said:
I've looked into what he does, but unless I AM misunderstanding, he does use a guitar and that guitar would have to make a difference, right? So if hes using a single coil when hes modelling, a humbucker wouldn't sound the same right? Its like taking a tone match that used a different guitar from yours and expecting it to sound the same. It wont. Unless you're using the exact set up.
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Not sure exactly what you're saying, but sounds like your question is leaning toward Cliff using a particular guitar(s)to model amps ? No , the modeling doesnt have anything to do with a particular guitar , he models the amp ,not the chain . The amps are extremely accurate and react the same as the physical amp to different guitars , ( pickups). He does use his guitars to create presets , if that is what you mean .
 
You're CRAZY!!! :lol (Sorry couldn't help myself)

I don't know, I have different presets for my two main guitars. One has high output pups, the other moderate output hum free single coils.

I set up preset "sets" I use for each type of guitar, because I find some things just sound better with one over the other. There are so many awesome options, I never considered what you are talking about.
 
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