Cab IR vs Amp model

JRFarmer

JRFarmer

Inspired
There was lots of chat in the 4.00 beta 1 thread about which is more important to the overall tone: amp model or cab IR. I'm just posting this for your listening pleasure. The amps don't sound identical obviously, but there's not that much difference between a cranked Fender and a cranked Marshall when you put them through the same cabs.

 
Cranked tube amps lose some degree of control over the speakers due to operating beyond linear output levels, so it makes sense that the speaker/cab would have an even larger influence on the sound than normal in those operating conditions, as the speaker is essentially ringing at its resonant frequencies, as is the cabinet, when hit with audio that tickles those frequencies. You hear some change in character from Marshall to Fender even distorted, due to the differences in output transformers and output tube types, but with the tone controls dialed in to make them sound close to each other, it is more in the texture of the distortion and the harmonics generated....
 
Given this, what is the best way to learn which cabs (and mics) to use for what type of tones? I know the wiki/Yek's guide lists cabs to pair with amps, but is there any way to see a comparison of different cabs to better appreciate the differences?
 
mattgreenrocks said:
Given this, what is the best way to learn which cabs (and mics) to use for what type of tones? I know the wiki/Yek's guide lists cabs to pair with amps, but is there any way to see a comparison of different cabs to better appreciate the differences?
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Find an artist who's tone you like, and even focus in on a specific song. Find out what amp they use, find out what cab and speakers they use. Then find the closest thing in the FM3 and try it out.
Sooner or later you should get an idea of what the speakers sound like. Greenback vs V30 vs G12 blue vs Jensen, etc. And you'll naturally know which you want to use for different tones. Then you can focus on selecting 1x vs 2x vs 4x cabs. Then you can focus on microphones.
 
mattgreenrocks said:
Given this, what is the best way to learn which cabs (and mics) to use for what type of tones? I know the wiki/Yek's guide lists cabs to pair with amps, but is there any way to see a comparison of different cabs to better appreciate the differences?
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Unfortunately the answer is "whatever sounds good to you". If you like how a 1x10 IR sounds with a 100W high gain amp use that!

In terms of mics it's also preference. I like anything from the factory bank that uses the 313 mic. Otherwise I mostly use 57 + 160 panned left and right.
 
JRFarmer said:
Sooner or later you should get an idea of what the speakers sound like. Greenback vs V30 vs G12 blue vs Jensen, etc. And you'll naturally know which you want to use for different tones. Then you can focus on selecting 1x vs 2x vs 4x cabs. Then you can focus on microphones.
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Yes, different brands and models of speakers and cabinets sound different; I prefer 1x12 and 2x12 and occasionally 4x10 and use the cabinet to get the resonance range and then the speaker(s) to get the clarity and overall punch and attitude. Sometimes the difference is down to nuances and I could flip a coin.

The problem with this is IRs/Cabs from different companies can sound different, even when using the same mics and speakers and cabinet simply because of the difference in mic positioning, and Fractal glosses over the detail of the positions wanting us to rely on our ears instead of positions and distances, so the detail we have isn't enough to help us quickly pick. Then I pin the cab picker and filter then scroll through the results quickly until something jumps out. I select several I like then audition them more carefully.

I have big packs of IRs from my time with Helix and AX8 so I can browse through them and copy my selected files into the modeler, but then I end up with duplicates of the factory cabinets, so I tend to avoid doing that unless I'm after a cabinet and speaker combination I can't find in the built-in choices.

I understand and agree with Fractal's choice to reduce the information and try to get us to rely on our ears, but it's still nice to have the extra detail when we really want it. Maybe if the modeler had a slot we could insert a quarter that for 25 minutes would give us all the detail.... :)
 
laxu said:
Unfortunately the answer is "whatever sounds good to you". If you like how a 1x10 IR sounds with a 100W high gain amp use that!

In terms of mics it's also preference. I like anything from the factory bank that uses the 313 mic. Otherwise I mostly use 57 + 160 panned left and right.
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Definitely, what sounds good is the final determinant.

Since discovering the 160 it's becoming a first choice when looking at a cab/IR, then I look for a second cab to blend in that compliments the sound. Sometimes it's a 57, sometimes it's a 121, it depends on the attitude I'm going for I think.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Definitely, what sounds good is the final determinant.

Since discovering the 160 it's becoming a first choice when looking at a cab/IR, then I look for a second cab to blend in that compliments the sound. Sometimes it's a 57, sometimes it's a 121, it depends on the attitude I'm going for I think.
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There are several different 160 mics used among the factory cabs. ONE of those is a "magical" specimen. After hearing it, we purchased our own. We were so disappointed that we thought it was defective and RETURNED it! After trying a few more 160s, we realized that... no, that one magical mic is just really special.

The 313 is far more consistent and reliably tasty.
 
Admin M@ said:
I thought that was his body bouncing the floor.
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That's a possibility, but it seems to happen occasionally, right after he hits the strings hard.
Watching it again you're right, he's tapping his foot. That floor must be really loose.

I like the sound of a 4x12 but not at that range. He was probably rearranging internal organs.
 
Dang it! If only Slash knew he could have just as easily used an off the shelf Fender Twin with the right cab.
No need for the mythical SIR #39 Marshall. ;)

Cool comparison. That Marshall is making me drool. :)
 
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Greg Ferguson said:
Definitely, what sounds good is the final determinant.

Since discovering the 160 it's becoming a first choice when looking at a cab/IR, then I look for a second cab to blend in that compliments the sound. Sometimes it's a 57, sometimes it's a 121, it depends on the attitude I'm going for I think.
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Same on the 160.
 
I had never noticed or heard much about the Beyerdynamic M160, or the Shure KSM313 until I started comparing IR's in the FM3. I was actually surprised at how they both stood out to me, in a big way, as personal favorites. I didn't expect that. And, I don't have the best hearing for highs. So, I'm glad, and a little relieved, to know that I'm not alone.

Admin M@ said:
There are several different 160 mics used among the factory cabs. ONE of those is a "magical" specimen.
Click to expand...

It is also good to know that one M160 mic here was uniquely exceptional among M160 mics in general.
I had already formed a general opinion based on that singularly exceptional experience.
 
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