Best ways to implement smoother scene changes while using both amp blocks simulteanously?

[sixtystring]

20.02 exhibits the same behavior as 19.06. In the image, top is 19.06 and bottom is 20.02. in both cases the gap is > 1500 samples which would be over 30 ms. In the wiki, it describes these audio gaps as "short"...which I would assume to mean much less than 30ms.

I guess this circles me back around a bit...

First, why is the gap apparent going from Dirty to Clean, but not from Clean to Dirty?

Second, is it a pipe dream to want to go from a Mesa + Friedman to a Vox smoothly (without covering it with delay/reverb)? Or am I doing something wrong?

 

[GlennO]

That gap has been in the neighborhood of 30ms since day one of the Axe-FX III. The envelope helps make it less noticeable. Not all amp modelers have a gap, there are well-known strategies for eliminating it, but they have downsides. However, as I mentioned above, even if the Axe-FX III gap could be reduced to 0 samples, I find certain amp tone transitions are inherently discordant and cross-fading Axe-FX rows is the best solution for me.

 

[unix-guy]

First, why is the gap apparent going from Dirty to Clean, but not from Clean to Dirty?

Probably because you are changing channels on only one of the Amp blocks going from Dirty to Clean (while using a single active Amp), but for Clean to Dirty you are also turning on the other amp block, which has no gap and it's "covering" for the other Amp block.

I'm guessing based on your earlier description and experience...

 

[touch33]

Second, is it a pipe dream to want to go from a Mesa + Friedman to a Vox smoothly (without covering it with delay/reverb)? Or am I doing something wrong?

a) It’s all about psychoacoustics — the perception of sound.

b) Given your chosen sounds/levels, yes.

c) Not “wrong” — just not supportive of what you seek.

 

[sixtystring]

Probably because you are changing channels on only one of the Amp blocks going from Dirty to Clean (while using a single active Amp), but for Clean to Dirty you are also turning on the other amp block, which has no gap and it's "covering" for the other Amp block.

I'm guessing based on your earlier description and experience...

I just confirmed that the Delay (set to Mute FX in) is what was covered the cutout when going from Clean to Dirty. If I bypass the delay block, the complete cutout happens there too.

You actually gave me an idea to check here...

In my original preset, on the Clean Scene, I had both amps switching Channels to a clean amp. Since I am only using one of the Amp Blocks for my Clean sound in this Preset, I wondered if leaving the bypassed Amp Block on the Dirty Channel might help.

I compared these two sceanrios when switching from Dirty to Clean Scenes. The image attachment shows in the top example there is a complete sound cutout whereas the bottom example is much less jarring, with no complete cutout.

• Top has the Bypassed Amp Block on a different channel than my Dirty Scene, so its both changing Channels and un-bypassing
• Bottom has the Bypassed Amp on the same channel as my Dirty Scene, so only un-bypassing

Kind of interesting results considering the second block is muting, so you would think it would have the same effect as the gap.

 

[Moke]

If it were me, I would try to get what I need for the Dirty scene from one amp.. Or what I need for the Clean scene with a Drive block acting as the Amp. Keep both chains always running and use a Mux block. Or, crossfade/morph between them with a Mixer block and a Scene Controller.

But, try this one out (19.06). Added a Reverb block in a parallel path that has a couple of parameters controlled via Scene Controller 2. It is active, but not heard in the Dirty scene. But when you switch to the Clean scene, the verb that was being generated (but not heard) is now heard during the transition to help cover the gap.

Moke

 

[Andrew Male]

I think the easiest way to solve this is to cut down to one amp for dirty or one amp for clean, then you can just bypass them with no amp switching delay.

Or use a clean amp and engage a pedal.

Or stop playing whilst the change happens.

Or do what Metallica did and use two Axe Fxs and switch between them using a GCX switcher.

There are some limitations to the Axe FX, seamlessly switching between 4 amp models with zero gap is one.

 

[Honken]

I've actually considered buying an fm3 for this reason. So I can pair it up with the 3, and get amazing sounds. Expensive, but still tempting.

One thing I've just come to accept, is the fact that the computing speed is fast! But not fast enough for scenarios like switching 2 amps at the same time without the gap. I am okay with that. I think of it this way:

The venues i play dont have the best pa systems. And all the fancy dual amp stuff I would do in a studio session might just not translate that well anyway. This is why I'd rather make due with one amp at a time and have the seamless switching, than having the gap and need to use resources to cover it up. But this is just my personal preference.

I find that you could shape the guitar tone alot with just using different cabs on each side, slightly different eqs or some super small amount of delay on one of the sides. You could also do the dry/wet version, or maybe the wet/dry/wet. There are a lot of options in the realm of stereo guitar, and the axe 3 is capable of almost all of them I would say.

But I understand that people prioritize different than me, and that's really a good thing. This is what makes this type of technology go forward. People finding new solutions and stuff like that.

One thing I would consider is to try tweaking a drivepedal to match up one of the dirty amps in a way. That way you could have the the vox doing cleans and the Mesa or Friedman in paralell with the drive emulating one of the dirty amps.

Set up both cab blocks for different use. And use the IR player as well if you need more. That way everything that causes the gap could be eliminated.

 

[sixtystring]

Thanks for all the tips and info everyone. @Moke , I am looking forward to trying out your trick. Just reading this and I think it will probably do for now.

Long term I will revisit my dirty tone to try and get something similar with a single amp.