Best way to adjust overall volume?

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Avoid the output block, especially per scene settings. Your effect tails will raise and lower in volume.

Start in the Amp block.

Get the hottest signal out of the Axe that you can so your downstream equipment is adding as little gain as possible. Otherwise, you are amplifying the noise floor along with your signal.

VERY GOOD advice, thank you.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

So the options are "input block" Volume, "amp block" volume, and "output block" which is not an option that "should be used" to raise the signal.

There are also physical knobs on the top, which are not connected to any of these controls.

My understanding was that the little knobs on the top, set to full, were "proper" or unity.

Thus they should always be set to max...

Yes "noise floor" is important etc.

So is not clipping obviously.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Output block is the place to start IMO for what it seems he wants.

Of course the effect tails will raise proportionally, as they should, because you are adjusting the overall level of that scene and you should want that to happen to maintain the sound of that scene.

Going your route runs into issues of A affects B affects C. That's why the Output is the easy place to at least start. For large volume changes, you will probably need to adjust the Amp block because then you run into perceived tonal changes just due to the volume and how that is sensed by the human ear.

Interesting.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

I naturally want to go to the Output block. My reasoning is that I want to avoid changing the tone. Large volume changes will bring perceived tonal changes, but if I'm reading you right, you're talking about relatively minor changes (just adjusting for different amps) so that's where I'd go.

No I mean large changes.

Like some of the Fender clean amps are very low volume compared to the other amps.

So where to I "cleanly" max out the volume.

I guess it woud be easy if there was one Volume knob. But there are about 16...

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

That’s not what I hear.

3 dB is the minimal average where most people notice a difference in an ensemble situation, such as a band playing and someone wants to have a solo boost. 6 dB is the next step up, definitely not twice as loud.

This might help:

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217201737-Doubling-Power-vs-Doubling-Output

So, if 3 dB is the minimal value and 6 dB is ”significant”, imagine what twice as loud would be at concert volume and how much power it’d take.

Interesting article.

Yes I heard someone (producer or someone on a Fractal video maybe) say that 6db is "percieved by most people" to be "double the volume," but this article is more scientific than someones quote...

 

[sprint]

From the manual

OUTPUT LEVELS Output levels are easy to monitor by paging to the Meters page of the Home page. Should your output levels be too high, the OUT 1 CLIP or OUT 2 CLIP LEDs on the front panel will light. This is a true indication of imminent clipping, and unlike inputs, outputs should NOT “tickle the red”. To lower output levels, you can adjust the top panel knobs or adjust the level of your presets.

that doesn't say "you shouldn't adjust the output block" - it says to monitor your output levels to avoid output clipping (raising level anywhere can throw you into output clipping danger), and, once levels are set, the physical front panel knobs can be adjusted without output clipping danger.

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

that doesn't say "you shouldn't adjust the output block" - it says to monitor your output levels to avoid output clipping (raising level anywhere can throw you into output clipping danger), and, once levels are set, the physical front panel knobs can be adjusted without output clipping danger.

Its saying that you should avoid raising the output level because once you clip youre F*cked.

So if a "hot rodded marshall" preset in the fractal can be loud as h*ll, why cant the "fender clean."

Obviously it can but Output block is not the way to do it...

And yes the higher gain amps are more compressed and the cleaner stuff (fender stuff) prob has more dynamic range so thats part of it too.

But you get my drift. I want to select a clean amp, and then immediately turn the volume up as high as I can go "with lowest noise floor" and without even having to think "will this digitally clip my output." ie; the worst thing you can do in any digital audio realm, and mentioned in the manual as well.

 

[sprint]

Its saying that you should avoid raising the output level

Obviously it can but Output block is not the way to do it...

I must be blind - I simply do not see where it says that. Level can be adjusted anywhere including in the output block - while adjusting level anywhere but with the physical knobs, one needs to be watchful of Axe output clipping.

 

[fcs101]

No I mean large changes.

Then don't use the Output block. Like I said that's what I would do for relatively small adjustments.

 

[GitGuy513]

So if a "hot rodded marshall" preset in the fractal can be loud as h*ll, why cant the "fender clean."

What Fender Amp model are you using? A low watt early Fender amp vs a 100 watt more modern are going to have completely different characteristics. What’s more comparing a “hot rodded” 100 watt Marshall are different beasts.

Gain staging can be a bit complex depending on the ability of the different devices being used. That’s why at some point mixers and preamps are needed to properly level equipment with large output variations. Maybe a mixer block is needed in your chain.

Update:
I forgot to mention…Output one top panel knob should not be turned max as a general practice. I keep it around half. That gives headroom. Output 2 is designed to be unity gain when full.

 

[GitGuy513]

Also have you tried Hiwatt models or the JC120 model for clean tones and lots of clean headroom in the Amp Block.

 

[fractalz]

Output block is the place to start IMO for what it seems he wants.

Of course the effect tails will raise proportionally, as they should, because you are adjusting the overall level of that scene and you should want that to happen to maintain the sound of that scene.

Going your route runs into issues of A affects B affects C. That's why the Output is the easy place to at least start. For large volume changes, you will probably need to adjust the Amp block because then you run into perceived tonal changes just due to the volume and how that is sensed by the human ear.

There are a lot of posts here about managing levels. If you change the output block level per scene, you could have a large jump in the level of time-based effects (delay, reverb). It is generally not recommended.

If you use the same output block level across all scenes, it is not an issue.

 

[fcs101]

There are a lot of posts here about managing levels. If you change the output block level per scene, you could have a large jump in the level of time-based effects (delay, reverb). It is generally not recommended.

If you use the same output block level across all scenes, it is not an issue.

Per the Block Guide, boost per scene is one purpose of the Output block. That's a valid reason to use it and IMO is probably a great place to start. Again, as I stated, if you are making large level changes, you may need to adjust elsewhere.

"OUTPUT BLOCK SCENE LEVELS
Every output block is equipped with eight Scene Level
parameters. Use these to cut or boost output for any
scene."

 

[Jozsef Kiss]

VOLUME CONTROL!
Where is the most ideal place to PLACE THE VOLUME PEDAL!
There is control: FC-12 and a Volume pedal!
As I read here, it's not just a problem for me!
Unfortunately, I can not speak English!
Even the interpretation of the applied concepts is a problem!
Let's take an example!
There is a factory preset: 59 Bassguy
I can ask you where in this Preset .where would be the most ideal place for the Volume pedal? S with what value setting!
I have been using the AX-FX III for three years!
I still don’t know where the Volume pedal would be the ideal place!
The attached picture shows that I use this setting! In every preset!
But now here I am reading that this is not a good solution!
I'm very confused, I don't understand anything about the whole volume control anymore!
Thank you very much for your understanding!
And most of all, thank you very much if in that preset, someone would include 59 Bassguy’s solution.
Maybe I'll learn from that!
Sincerely, 73 years old, "blonde" Hungarian! - I'm still looking for the VOICE!

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Yeah I guess I am really stupid. I need like a one page PDF to show me the 3 steps to volume control on the FM3.

 

[fractalz]

Yeah I guess I am really stupid. I need like a one page PDF to show me the 3 steps to volume control on the FM3.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Connections_and_levels#Setting_levels

 

[chris]

So the options are "input block" Volume, "amp block" volume, and "output block" which is not an option that "should be used" to raise the signal.

There are also physical knobs on the top, which are not connected to any of these controls.

My understanding was that the little knobs on the top, set to full, were "proper" or unity.

Thus they should always be set to max...

Yes "noise floor" is important etc.

So is not clipping obviously.

increasing the Input Block will change the level going INTO the amp block so it will be as if you turned your guitar up louder, ruining gain staging. same for turning it down. this is not the place to level a preset. with high gain sounds, the level probably will barely change.

Output block can be used, but if you change amp channels (or any other block changes volume drastically) you'd just have to adjust the Out block again, messing up the previous channel's setting.

the Amp block is typically the best place to adjust level because when used, it's the biggest source of volume. Drive/Gain, Master Volume, and many other settings in the Amp block change the volume drastically, so why not adjust it where that happens.

the Level parameter in the Amp block does NOT change tone. the resulting number for Level is not important, again because the other parameters in the Amp block change the level so drastically. for example, a Master Volume setting of 1 might cause Level to be -8 dB, where a MV setting of 10 could cause Level to be -20, way less. no sense to make those changes, then go to the Out block to adjust.

at a gig with a real amp, if you're too loud or quiet at sound check, what do you adjust? an EQ pedal in the loop? probably the Amp. same concept here, really.

Unity Gain means the level is same at the Input and Output. once you put a block that can change level so drastically like the Amp block, you're no longer at Unity Gain. so having the knobs all the way up for that reason doesn't create unity.

it takes a lot of words to explain things via text. but the simple solution is to adjust the Amp block Level parameter.

that's why Amp Level appears in Edit's Preset Leveling function, and why previous generation Leveling functions had the Amp Level control there too. for the Axe3 generation, go to the Layout, Zoom out with the A knob, then view the meters at the top of the screen. Nav to highlight the Amp block, then turn the C knob to quickly adjust Amp level up or down.

situations where i wouldn't use Amp Level to adjust volume are presets where there's a compressor at the very end of the chain. adjusting Amp Level there would change how the compressor functions and change the tone. so first - without the compressor on - i'd level the Amp block like normal, then add the compressor and adjust as needed. from there if i needed a level change, i'd adjust the compressor because the Amp Level is locked due to how the compressor works.

 

[fcs101]

Output block can be used, but if you change amp channels (or any other block changes volume drastically) you'd just have to adjust the Out block again, messing up the previous channel's setting.

You can adjust individual scene settings in the Output block, that's how I use it.

 

[Jozsef Kiss]

increasing the Input Block will change the level going INTO the amp block so it will be as if you turned your guitar up louder, ruining gain staging. same for turning it down. this is not the place to level a preset. with high gain sounds, the level probably will barely change.

Output block can be used, but if you change amp channels (or any other block changes volume drastically) you'd just have to adjust the Out block again, messing up the previous channel's setting.

the Amp block is typically the best place to adjust level because when used, it's the biggest source of volume. Drive/Gain, Master Volume, and many other settings in the Amp block change the volume drastically, so why not adjust it where that happens.

the Level parameter in the Amp block does NOT change tone. the resulting number for Level is not important, again because the other parameters in the Amp block change the level so drastically. for example, a Master Volume setting of 1 might cause Level to be -8 dB, where a MV setting of 10 could cause Level to be -20, way less. no sense to make those changes, then go to the Out block to adjust.

at a gig with a real amp, if you're too loud or quiet at sound check, what do you adjust? an EQ pedal in the loop? probably the Amp. same concept here, really.

Unity Gain means the level is same at the Input and Output. once you put a block that can change level so drastically like the Amp block, you're no longer at Unity Gain. so having the knobs all the way up for that reason doesn't create unity.

it takes a lot of words to explain things via text. but the simple solution is to adjust the Amp block Level parameter.

that's why Amp Level appears in Edit's Preset Leveling function, and why previous generation Leveling functions had the Amp Level control there too. for the Axe3 generation, go to the Layout, Zoom out with the A knob, then view the meters at the top of the screen. Nav to highlight the Amp block, then turn the C knob to quickly adjust Amp level up or down.

situations where i wouldn't use Amp Level to adjust volume are presets where there's a compressor at the very end of the chain. adjusting Amp Level there would change how the compressor functions and change the tone. so first - without the compressor on - i'd level the Amp block like normal, then add the compressor and adjust as needed. from there if i needed a level change, i'd adjust the compressor because the Amp Level is locked due to how the compressor works.

There is a factory preset: 59 Bassguy
I can ask you where in this Preset .where would be the most ideal place for the Volume pedal? S with what value setting!
I'm sorry, I don't want to be incomprehensible!
Can I ask for this solution?
For me, this would be a scripture for the final solution!
And I promise I won't ask such a stupid question again!
I have experimented a lot and I don't know the solution!
So I really don’t want to be unreasonable, incomprehensible!
Thank you very much for the solution!

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

VOLUME CONTROL!
Where is the most ideal place to PLACE THE VOLUME PEDAL!
There is control: FC-12 and a Volume pedal!
As I read here, it's not just a problem for me!
Unfortunately, I can not speak English!
Even the interpretation of the applied concepts is a problem!
Let's take an example!
There is a factory preset: 59 Bassguy
I can ask you where in this Preset .where would be the most ideal place for the Volume pedal? S with what value setting!
I have been using the AX-FX III for three years!
I still don’t know where the Volume pedal would be the ideal place!
The attached picture shows that I use this setting! In every preset!
But now here I am reading that this is not a good solution!
I'm very confused, I don't understand anything about the whole volume control anymore!
Thank you very much for your understanding!
And most of all, thank you very much if in that preset, someone would include 59 Bassguy’s solution.
Maybe I'll learn from that!
Sincerely, 73 years old, "blonde" Hungarian! - I'm still looking for the VOICE!

If you want to control how loud it is without changing the tone/overdrive sound, place the VolPan after the amp/cab. If you want to simulate a volume pedal in front of the amp (which will clean up your overdrive tone before it starts cutting your actual volume, place it before the amp/cab....