Best method to run FM3 to FOH and FRFR Backline?

vika12

Experienced
I've got a gig coming up where the venue will be providing the sound system and tech. I plan to run the FM3 to FOH and use my FRFR Neo Clr as an onstage backline. I don't know the sound person, but some I've encountered prefer to mic any amp or cab they see and resist direct outs.

As I understand it there are 3 methods I can use:

1. Per the FM3 manual, run FM3 output 1 to FOH and FM3 output 2 to the FRFR; or
2. Run the FM3 output 1 to the FRFR and send the signal out from the CLR's "Link" output via XLR to FOH; or
3. Connect the FM3 output 1 to the CLR via XLR and mic the CLR.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these 3 setups? Are there advantages or disadvantages (sonic or otherwise) to using 1, 2 or 3?

Thanks!
 
DO NOT MIC THE CLR.

1 or 2 is good. In my experience, it depends on the sound guy. If he/she is really running sound and mixing you live, give them dedicated line. If you expect a situation where they turn on the PA and go get a beer, use option 2 so you can control level to house.
 
DO NOT MIC THE CLR.

1 or 2 is good. In my experience, it depends on the sound guy. If he/she is really running sound and mixing you live, give them dedicated line. If you expect a situation where they turn on the PA and go get a beer, use option 2 so you can control level to house.

Thanks - I assumed mic'ing the CLR would be undesirable but I've never tried it. What would that sound like (if you know)?
 
Option A, you don´t care what the other bandmates are playing:
Copy Out1 to Out2.
Send Out1 to FoH, and Out2 to your monitors.

Option B, you want to hear waht the other bandmates are playing.
Send Out1 to FoH and tell the soundman the mix you want to hear and havehim to sendit to your monitors.
 
i would use Copy Out 1 to Out 2 in the setup menu.

use Out 1 to your CLR.

use Out 2 via 1/4" and request a DI box.

some sound guys don't like an XLR coming from guitar gear, but they know what to do with a 1/4" cable and DI box. many say "treat this like a keyboard" and they usually know what to do.

now you have separate volume controls - Out 1 for your CLR and Out 2 to set a level to FOH and not touch it the rest of the gig, while you can adjust Out 1 as needed.

if the gig doesn't have a DI box, you might need to flip it and send XLR to FOH (if that's the only option) and 1/4" to your CLR, which shouldn't be much different at all.

a mic'd full range speaker doesn't sound the best. since the mic would go somewhere between the tweeter and woofer, you might not get the entire signal. since CLR is a coax design, it might be better than typical speakers, but still, not the best option at all.

if anything, say this is what Metallica does (sending an xlr signal to the board) ;)
 
i would use Copy Out 1 to Out 2 in the setup menu.

use Out 1 to your CLR.

use Out 2 via 1/4" and request a DI box.

some sound guys don't like an XLR coming from guitar gear, but they know what to do with a 1/4" cable and DI box. many say "treat this like a keyboard" and they usually know what to do.

now you have separate volume controls - Out 1 for your CLR and Out 2 to set a level to FOH and not touch it the rest of the gig, while you can adjust Out 1 as needed.
Why is your first choice to send Output 2 to FOH, instead of Output 1?

If you use Copy Out 1 to Our 2, you needn't insert an Output 2 block in your presets, correct?
 
Option 1 is better. You have easier control over the levels sent to your monitor and FOH from the output knobs on the FM3. As was mentioned previously, have a longer XLR cable ready in case they don't have a drop for your direct out on the front line and you need to patch into the backline drop they have ready for a guitar amp mic.

-Aaron
 
DO NOT MIC THE CLR.

The metaphor of wearing a belt AND suspenders springs to mind. ;)

I am not an FM3 knowledge demigod but in many cases people have cab blocks in their presets. To mic the CLR would be, in a sense, to mic a cab that is putting out the sound of a mic'd cab already. Even with an FRFR the mic itself will introduce some coloration and characteristics of its own. Beyond that, mic'ing cabs or amps has always been a fussy pain in the backside in studio or onstage. Working out mic placement, fiddling with a stand or hanging a mic over the top of the amp and taping it in place etc. Then there are the considerations of room size/shape/acoustics, optimal stage volume etc. One of the FM3 (or other modeler)'s selling points to me was the ability to eliminate these considerations and compromises in one go - with the bonus of the output sounding the same or very similar through studio speakers, a PA, a FRFR, headphones, a wedge etc. Instead of the guitarist having to plan for every contingency and buying, packing and transporting the gear (mics, stands, cables, adapters, tape) there is a consistent method of amplification and connection and it involves minimal time and manpower. It's like stealing.

I just looked at the CLR...it's a nice unit but ouch! That price tag. 33 lbs is a nice manageable weight though.

Not to brag - OK I'm bragging - but I went ahead and sought out the GR Guitar powered cab. 2x10 stereo, 600W (!) and...18 lbs thanks to the carbon fiber shell. And thanks to the forumite who first mentioned the GR brand - but finding a unit was devilishly difficult. And not cheap either.

To answer the question - although others have answered it already - I would go with option 1. It would have been very easy for Fractal to issue the 'basic' FM3 with only one set of outputs with one level control and drop the monitoring issue in the lap of the end-user who would have had to rely on the sound man or some separate piece(s) of kit. Having two sets of outputs and two level controls covers the FOH and the stage situations and gives the guitarist the ability to 'mix himself' onstage without the sound man knowing or even caring. So why not take advantage?

(Editorial aside: I have two rare gripes about the FM3's level knobs. They turn easily - too easily - and therefore may often be knocked out of desired or set position especially in a live situation where mix is critical. They are also rather small and flimsy in my view. Due to the dimensions and shape of the unit especially when stored/transported having taller knobs might be impractical as they would be damaged or even knocked off. But larger knobs about the size of vintage Fender amp knobs or those found on a variety of pedals might work better. And harder-to-turn pots under the knobs might help guard against accidental or unwanted movement.)

It is possible and very common to daisy-chain XLR cables if a longer run is needed. Gear and sound anoraks will debate you until your eyes cross about the merits of this method but in a practical, live setting any drawbacks to this approach are insignificant. As someone elsewhere noted, 'a recording studio might have an XLR run of 200 ft or more. Connecting two 25 ft XLR cables to get a 50 ft cable isn't going to have any noticeable effect on sound.'
 
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