Best low weight live solutions for Axe FX?

D

DestructionSphere

Member
Hey guys,

So I just ordered my Axe FX, and I'm already set for my home use (studio monitors/headphones), but I'm also wanting to use this thing to replace some or all of my live rig if possible. One of the reasons I decided to pick one of these up was to lighten my load and setup complexity for my live rig, but I'm noticing that a lot of the suggestions for live rigs include multiple FRFR cabinets, high wattage power amps, etc. which seem like they wouldn't be much less work or much lighter than a usual set-up. Are any of you guys running direct to FOH for live use? Or maybe using some light PA monitors with good results? I know FRFR is the best option, but if I can get good enough results with direct signal to FOH and maybe a light PA speaker for band monitoring I'll be extremely happy.

Thanks
 
Howdy,
I have an Atomic CLR Neo for monitoring, but the fact is--if I know the sound guy will provide me my own monitor/monitor mix on stage--I don't even need to bring it. I just have the Axe, power conditioner, Mission pedal, MFC, all cables, 2 little folding guitar stands and stage clothes in a 6U rolling rack. Apart from my guitar, that's it--I can take everything in and out in one trip.
I'd love to hear from others about their ultra-minimal setups, too!
 
Eric T Amble said:
Howdy,
I have an Atomic CLR Neo for monitoring, but the fact is--if I know the sound guy will provide me my own monitor/monitor mix on stage--I don't even need to bring it. I just have the Axe, power conditioner, Mission pedal, MFC, all cables, 2 little folding guitar stands and stage clothes in a 6U rolling rack. Apart from my guitar, that's it--I can take everything in and out in one trip.
I'd love to hear from others about their ultra-minimal setups, too!
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That sounds like a beauty set-up. Pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. Any idea how much that 6U weighs with everything in it?
 
I believe the CLR's are the best (but there are plenty of other opinions out there too.) The extra input to use as a vocal/blend/whatever monitor makes it a no-brainer for me. Don't really qualify them as 'lightweight'. YMMV.

Field test a few PA speakers at your local store (easy with the Axe; plug in with an XLR and go and I suggest all your presets are setup for MONO.) The speakers out there are very definitely NOT all the same when it comes down to modeling compatibility, but you might come in at a much nicer price than the CLR's.
 
electronpirate said:
I believe the CLR's are the best (but there are plenty of other opinions out there too.) The extra input to use as a vocal/blend/whatever monitor makes it a no-brainer for me. Don't really qualify them as 'lightweight'. YMMV.

Field test a few PA speakers at your local store (easy with the Axe; plug in with an XLR and go and I suggest all your presets are setup for MONO.) The speakers out there are very definitely NOT all the same when it comes down to modeling compatibility, but you might come in at a much nicer price than the CLR's.
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Thanks for the info!

Yeah, the CLRs definitely seem to be the holy grail as far as I've read on here. At 33 lbs. they're not exactly light but also not particularly heavy, especially considering I've been using a Port City OS 212 (~60 lbs. loaded) for my gigs for the past year or so (and that's not even including the weight of my 5150II and massive pedalboard). Now they're also pretty damn expensive, though I'd feel a bit odd bitching about price considering how much I just dropped at Fractal, plus I don't know that there's a cheaper powered FRFR anyway (maybe the Friedman one? Haven't seen too many people talk about it, so I'm not sure if it's any good).
 
Others will have to chime in on the Friedman, but the reviews I've seen are very good.

But I agree on the pricing thing. I bought a set of CLR's because I couldn't see spending close to 8K on my gear (Axe FX, MFC, and Guitar), and putting it through the cheapest solution I could find.
 
The Friedman sound very good but is not FRFR despite what's written in some places. It's a Full Range monitor tuned (i.e. not Flat Response) for guitar. If you're not super sensitive that what you hear is exactly what the audience hears you'll likely be more than happy with the Friedman ASM's. Especially if you play rockier music. They are definitely NOT lightweight and easy to carry though so if that's a factor I would get something else. I have mine at home and never bring it out.

The lightest and most convenient solution that will work well is likely going to be the Matrix FR10 or FR12. The Matrix cabs are super lightweight, FRFR, relatively cheap and sound very good.
 
Johan Allard said:
The Friedman sound very good but is not FRFR despite what's written in some places. It's a Full Range monitor tuned (i.e. not Flat Response) for guitar. If you're not super sensitive that what you hear is exactly what the audience hears you'll likely be more than happy with the Friedman ASM's. Especially if you play rockier music. They are definitely NOT lightweight and easy to carry though so if that's a factor I would get something else. I have mine at home and never bring it out.

The lightest and most convenient solution that will work well is likely going to be the Matrix FR10 or FR12. The Matrix cabs are super lightweight, FRFR, relatively cheap and sound very good.
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Some places online are describing the ASM as an FRFR, but it's a bit disappointing if it isn't since it's only a touch cheaper than the old CLRs (not the "neo" ones). Not that I'm super fussed either way since I'm mostly looking for something so that myself and bandmates can hear it, doesn't have to be perfect, as long as FOH can get a good signal.

I'm assuming those Matrix cabs are from the same Matrix that makes those power amps that everyone loves?
 
I frequently run direct to FOH and, when available, use my Westone IEM's for monitoring. It doesn't get much lighter than that.

When getting an AUX Send to my IEM's isn't an option, I'll still go DI and ask for the FOH mix in my wedge. That usually works great for me. If that's still not working, I have one of my AXE FX outs available to plug in to my Audio Technica wireless unit and I'll plug my IEM's in to the belt pack and put in one of my ears - I'll leave one ear out to hear the stage mix and one ear in to hear my guitar. It may sound complicated but it's all set up neatly in my 6 space rack. I can change up practically on the fly. Hearing yourself in IEM's takes a little getting used to but with a little practice, it works great.

When going DI is going to be a problem (it happens) or I simply need an amp on stage, I have another set of presets ready to launch for my 2x12 cab and the Matrix amp. (FRFR / DI presets don't translate to amp>guitar cab.)

I've owned several FRFR options including two of the first generation Atomic wedges, Matrix NL212 and, most recently, the Mission Gemini. I have never found the love going FRFR in practice or rehearsals so I just started going DI and basically working on the tone for the finished product at FOH. I've given up on FRFR as a rig option for a number of reasons.
 
DestructionSphere said:
Some places online are describing the ASM as an FRFR, but it's a bit disappointing if it isn't since it's only a touch cheaper than the old CLRs (not the "neo" ones). Not that I'm super fussed either way since I'm mostly looking for something so that myself and bandmates can hear it, doesn't have to be perfect, as long as FOH can get a good signal.

I'm assuming those Matrix cabs are from the same Matrix that makes those power amps that everyone loves?
Click to expand...

FRFR is not some form of holy grail though and it's not necessarily that FRFR=good, not FRFR=bad. It's just a tool in the end. It's also not possible to create something that's going to be true FRFR. FRFR stands for Full Range Flat Response. Full Range simply means that the speaker will go from 20-20,000Hz. Flat Response means that whatever frequency you put through should come out at the exact same dB level. There is no speaker in the world that does that. Not the CLR or any form of studio speakers regardless of price. If you look at the CLR manual at: http://atomicamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Atomic-CLR-Manual.pdf, the 3rd lat page you'll see "Response Data" where they have a graph and you can see that the CLR is mostly flat from about 90Hz, which is really good. If the CLR (or any other speaker) was true FRFR you would see a flat line across the entire spectrum.

The bad thing with FRFR is that it can sound really harsh at loud volumes as we hear things differently at loud volumes vs lower volumes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves) so with something like a Friedman, even though its not as accurate as the CLR (or high end studio monitors), it's probably more pleasing as it accentuates frequencies that make it "sound good" where's a CLR can sound harsh but is technically more accurate. Now, if you have more accurate information, you can possibly adjust your presets so they sound better at loud volumes (you should always tweak at gig volume) and that would potentially sound better through FoH. Or you let the FoH sound engineer do their job and adjust your guitar as they see fit and you just focus on your playing.

So I don't think it's "disappointing" that the Friedman is not true FRFR, regardless of what it costs. They set out to build something that would sound really good with modellers like the Axe Fx 2, and it does. That was their aim. The aim of the CLR was to create something that was as accurate as possible. It's definitely not the case that the most accurate is always going to be the best solution. But you have to know what you choose and why.

And yes, it's the same Matrix that does the power amps that everyone loves.
 
The new CLR neo Mk II is not 33lbs -closer to 37...........not a big deal and a very good option but Mic at Xitione built me the 1st Gen light weight powered monitor that is awesome.
 
Johan Allard said:
FRFR is not some form of holy grail though and it's not necessarily that FRFR=good, not FRFR=bad. It's just a tool in the end. It's also not possible to create something that's going to be true FRFR. FRFR stands for Full Range Flat Response. Full Range simply means that the speaker will go from 20-20,000Hz. Flat Response means that whatever frequency you put through should come out at the exact same dB level. There is no speaker in the world that does that. Not the CLR or any form of studio speakers regardless of price. If you look at the CLR manual the 3rd lat page you'll see "Response Data" where they have a graph and you can see that the CLR is mostly flat from about 90Hz, which is really good. If the CLR (or any other speaker) was true FRFR you would see a flat line across the entire spectrum.

The bad thing with FRFR is that it can sound really harsh at loud volumes as we hear things differently at loud volumes vs lower volumes so with something like a Friedman, even though its not as accurate as the CLR (or high end studio monitors), it's probably more pleasing as it accentuates frequencies that make it "sound good" where's a CLR can sound harsh but is technically more accurate. Now, if you have more accurate information, you can possibly adjust your presets so they sound better at loud volumes (you should always tweak at gig volume) and that would potentially sound better through FoH. Or you let the FoH sound engineer do their job and adjust your guitar as they see fit and you just focus on your playing.

So I don't think it's "disappointing" that the Friedman is not true FRFR, regardless of what it costs. They set out to build something that would sound really good with modellers like the Axe Fx 2, and it does. That was their aim. The aim of the CLR was to create something that was as accurate as possible. It's definitely not the case that the most accurate is always going to be the best solution. But you have to know what you choose and why.

And yes, it's the same Matrix that does the power amps that everyone loves.
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That's interesting, I hadn't though about it that way. My original thought (which may be far from the truth) was that the general decision to use FRFR for modeling was so that you didn't have to spend too much time tweaking your studio presets for live performance, because it should sound the same (though, obviously still not 100%). Granted, my studio monitors aren't exactly FRFR either (Yamaha HS8), and if your information is accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't) then a cubic shit ton of tweaking will probably be necessary for my live sound regardless of the gear on either side. So maybe the Friedman is a good choice then, since the obviously important things are 1) Sounds good, and 2) We can all hear it. At any rate, there's going to be a lot of gear testing in my future. Thanks for the detailed information!
 
cragginshred said:
The new CLR neo Mk II is not 33lbs -closer to 37...........not a big deal and a very good option but Mic at Xitione built me the 1st Gen light weight powered monitor that is awesome.
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Are you talking about those "Wallimann" ones? They look really small and light for what I assume are gig-worthy cabs, so this looks like it would be a good fit for my needs. Do you have any idea how much they weigh?
 
Mine is right around 30lbs and is super loud. Power amp is at least 20% louder than the CLR (which is plenty loud) I own. Both are great and I would be happy to use either as a grab n go!
 
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cragginshred said:
Mine is right around 30lbs and is super loud. Power amp is at least 20% louder than the CLR I own. Both are great and I would be happy to use either as a grab n go!
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Thanks for the advice, this seems like the best solution for me right now. Just got in contact with Mick to make sure he can ship to my country and verify the rates. Was contemplating the Friedman after Johan's response, but it looks like it's over 50 lbs. a bit too much weight for what I'm trying to do I think.
 
DestructionSphere said:
That's interesting, I hadn't though about it that way. My original thought (which may be far from the truth) was that the general decision to use FRFR for modeling was so that you didn't have to spend too much time tweaking your studio presets for live performance, because it should sound the same (though, obviously still not 100%). Granted, my studio monitors aren't exactly FRFR either (Yamaha HS8), and if your information is accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't) then a cubic shit ton of tweaking will probably be necessary for my live sound regardless of the gear on either side. So maybe the Friedman is a good choice then, since the obviously important things are 1) Sounds good, and 2) We can all hear it. At any rate, there's going to be a lot of gear testing in my future. Thanks for the detailed information!
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Luckily it's not likely going to need a "cubic ton of tweaking". Fletcher Munson means that Bass and Treble will sound accentuated at volume so if you aim to make your patches a bit mid heavy, or simply listen for that an increase mids a bit when you're playing loud, you'll be fine.

Mick at Xitone makes awesome stuff. Highly recommended.
 
Johan Allard said:
Luckily it's not likely going to need a "cubic ton of tweaking". Fletcher Munson means that Bass and Treble will sound accentuated at volume so if you aim to make your patches a bit mid heavy, or simply listen for that an increase mids a bit when you're playing loud, you'll be fine.

Mick at Xitone makes awesome stuff. Highly recommended.
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That's good to know. I tend to have pretty high mids in my tones for most things, so maybe I can just boost the mids a bit more for the live presets.
 
I ended up with a ZLX12p.Good price and I get a great tone out of it.I generally go FOH for gigs and as long as you have a good tone to send the sound guy it translates very well.I have had nothing but compliments from the sound guys and the audience on my tone.From small duets in a coffee house to a full on out door festival.Bottom line if you think it sounds good you will play good.What ever you get pick a patch and play at low level and high level to see how it sounds.A Peq is a great tool to tweak out some harshness.
 
James schelkun said:
I ended up with a ZLX12p.Good price and I get a great tone out of it.I generally go FOH for gigs and as long as you have a good tone to send the sound guy it translates very well.I have had nothing but compliments from the sound guys and the audience on my tone.From small duets in a coffee house to a full on out door festival.Bottom line if you think it sounds good you will play good.What ever you get pick a patch and play at low level and high level to see how it sounds.A Peq is a great tool to tweak out some harshness.
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You like the ZLX? I was considering that one because it's quite cheap and it fits into my weight requirements. Have you compared it with any of the popular options (CLR/Xitone/Friedman/etc.)? I know it's much cheaper but I'm curious how it holds up.
 
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