Best "Amp In The Room" Counterpoint Yet?

The endless quest for the best guitar tone. Chasing the elusive tone dragon. the search is never-ending. Good luck to us all.
 
I love this guy's videos. He does great work, but also has a nice delivery.

I have been doing A/B testing like this for a few years, and have learned a ton about tone. I'm happier than I have ever been. The main thing that has allowed me to go wild on A/B has been the emergence of reactive load boxes and cab IRs. I went down that rabbit hole by A/B testing speaker with mic vs. load box with IR. Then I was able to move on to testing different amps vs. each other, amps vs. IRs, amps vs. models, etc. My preferences changed massively over time, but have also stabilized I think.

I still use real amps, but more as a way to tune up my models. My journey with amp vs. model allowed me to dial amps to sound like models I liked, then models to sound like amps I liked, back and forth. Now I am happier with both my amps and my models.
 
I don’t care if it’s an amp, a modeler, a profile, capture etc, I like hearing it out of a guitar speaker more than a monitor speaker.

Put an open back 1x12 cab near the wall and it sounds huge, put a 8” front ported monitor speaker same position and it still sounds like a monitor (realizing that isn’t optimal placement for a monitor of course)

Monitor is accurate, guitar speaker/cab sounds like the amp sitting in the room with you, because it is.

Nice thing is it’s easy to listen to my nearfield monitors when I’m tracking, want stereo etc, and when I just want to sit and jam, use the cabinet
 
lqdsnddist said:
I don’t care if it’s an amp, a modeler, a profile, capture etc, I like hearing it out of a guitar speaker more than a monitor speaker.

Put an open back 1x12 cab near the wall and it sounds huge, put a 8” front ported monitor speaker same position and it still sounds like a monitor (realizing that isn’t optimal placement for a monitor of course)

Monitor is accurate, guitar speaker/cab sounds like the amp sitting in the room with you, because it is.

Nice thing is it’s easy to listen to my nearfield monitors when I’m tracking, want stereo etc, and when I just want to sit and jam, use the cabinet
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There is something beautiful about the raw sound coming from a guitar cab for sure. It rarely meets my needs though in a band or recording situation, where more polished is usually required.
 
Generally I like his videos but, this one...not so much.

Which guitar heroes (including the ones he listed) didn't get to be guitar heroes by playing through, and presumably being inspired by, real amp tones in their bedrooms?
 
Deadpool_25 said:
Generally I like his videos but, this one...not so much.

Which guitar heroes (including the ones he listed) didn't get to be guitar heroes by playing through, and presumably being inspired by, real amp tones in their bedrooms?
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It's my understanding that the guys whose tones we admire were the first, and they had to invent the tones they were getting from whole cloth. They had to find tones that accommodated their styles, not the other way 'round. A pursuit of tone for tone's sake also leaves out the part about playing music. I think that the phone call with the old pro makes the point pretty well that they were recording music, and took the hit where necessary to get it recorded. Quiet amps that don't bleed into each others' microphones and the like. Sort of how Zeppelin 1 was recorded on a bus. Or was that 2?

Anyhoo, the vid spoke to me in the sense that I chased recorded tones for decades, and now that isolated tracks are available, even the single-tracked recorded tone is nothing like what I'd perceived from the mastered recording, and I can imagine that the "in the room" sound was quite different from that as well.
 
I like Jim Lill‘s videos and I appreciate his experiments….there is just so much subjectivity in tone….he at least tries to apply a scientific approach.
 
I dunno…
That video seems to totally discount small club players that sometimes don’t even mic their cabs. In those cases you simply cannot say the amp in the room tone doesn’t matter. Because it’s literally all you have. Otherwise it’s a cool video tho. I like his stuff.
 
badmagick said:
I dunno…
That video seems to totally discount small club players that sometimes don’t even mic their cabs. In those cases you simply cannot say the amp in the room tone doesn’t matter. Because it’s literally all you have. Otherwise it’s a cool video tho. I like his stuff.
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Fair point. Been there more than not. Also been unhappy with it more than not.
 
He is absolutely right. We all want to imitate the sound of the records.

I've seen all the great bands in the last 40 years. From ACDC (10 x) to ZZ Top. Among them also Rush, Santana, U2, Queen, Jeff Beck, Stevie Ray Vaughan*, David Bowie , Pink Floyd, Aeromsith, Rammstein, Metallica, Genesis, B.B. King, Huey Lewis, Eric Clapton, Toto, Bon Jovi, Dokken, Night Ranger....... and hundreds more.
I can't even list them all. But I have NEVER heard an amp in the room sound.
What I heard was either a great or not so great overall sound.

And it is a fact that the live guitar sound was not as nice as on the albums.

Except * 😍

This was a great concert in the Amphi Theater at the Lorelei rock above the river Rhine.

The worst concert was in the early 80s. Van Halen. The whole band was on drugs or drunk or both. I was standing pretty close to the edge of the stage and the performance AND the sound was atrocious. Especially Eddie's guitar sound.

The best sound was AC/DC and PINK FLOYD.

The quality of the sound was and is dependent on the PA system and the FOH technician.


If you have a great "amp in the room sound" on stage, it's only until the drummer , the second guitarist and the bassist starts with his two SVT stacks. Then the nice AMP in the room sound is gone.

I have been playing with In Ear for quite some time. Actually all the bands I know here use In Ear. I just built a rack last week with a Midas M32 and three Midas DP48. In this rack also sits my AXE FX III.

And it makes no difference if we play in a club or on a big open air stage. The Sound is always the same and I save my hearing. After more than 3000 gigs I have to realize that I already have tinnitus. I do not want it to get worse.

At home I play with my studio monitors (PSI AUDIO A21). An incredible sound. I can absolutely recommend.

Amp in the room? I don't care.
 
I think for me, the "amp in the room" thing has been about how it feels to play through a rig on stage. My FM9 presets are all designed to feel good for me through my monitor so that I play better. No one in the audience can tell or gives a crap about what I like about my sound. Every room I play in is different and makes my rig sound different. But since I've quit using my amps and have gone modeler I feel like there is more consistency in my onstage environment.
 
I have been most successful using cab models that have either a matching "Room" IR or even a matching "Rear" IR. Run two cabs in your block and set one to primary mic of your choice and secondary cab is either the matching "Room" or matching "Rear". Here's a few examples from the factory library :

"2x12 Class-A GB 57 B AB" paired with "2x12 Class-A GB 67 Room AB"
"2x12 MAR-66 OH-MDRN 57 OH" paired with "2x12 MAR-66 OH-MDRN 84 Rear OH"
"1x12 IIC+ (pick a mic)" paired with "1x12 IIC+ Room (A or B)"
... etc.

You can easily find all the cab models with corresponding IRs by typing Room or Rear into the cab picker. "Rear" IRs work as good as "Room" IRs in my experience. Maybe cause they help to emulate the real world reflections that would happen behind an amp in the room? Just a guess on my part. But give it a try. What's nice is you can blend in the "Room" or "Rear" cab's volume depending on how much you want/need. Also you can isolate the low/hi cuts on the Room or Rear cab until you get the right results too. I usually roll off the low end more on the room or rear cabs. Since you are using matching IRs for both the front of the cab and the Room/Rear presumably there shouldn't be any phasing. I have not had an issue with it yet anyway.

There are a few "Room" IRs that have both Room_L and Room_R. I have not played with these yet - but I am assuming you could try those together for a "stereo amp in the room" if you have 2 FRFR's. Has anyone tried this? Its on my list of things to try next. I've only had my FM9 for about a month with many hours invested and many more to go. But the amp in the room thing was crucial for me to make retiring my twin mesa studio .22+ amps a possibility. Using the approach I described here has made their retirement likely. I won't miss lugging them to gigs (~50lbs each)!

This post also appears under thread titled "Amp in the Room - FRFR's Best Cab Blocks - Room/Air".
Apologize for duplicating this across threads, but since I am a new user apparently I cannot post links yet!
 
elvis said:
Fair point. Been there more than not. Also been unhappy with it more than not.
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Yeah, me too. I go primarily direct myself. I put a xitone wedge behind me for some stage volume and away I go…

I just felt that presentation neglected a sector of players that is not small. In fact, there are probably more non-mic’d players out there than those that are direct. For every arena there’s probably 100 small clubs where players will plop a combo amp in the corner and that’s what they call home.

I’m not one, but just wanted to defend my “amp in the room” kin 😊
 
badmagick said:
Yeah, me too. I go primarily direct myself. I put a xitone wedge behind me for some stage volume and away I go…

I just felt that presentation neglected a sector of players that is not small. In fact, there are probably more non-mic’d players out there than those that are direct. For every arena there’s probably 100 small clubs where players will plop a combo amp in the corner and that’s what they call home.

I’m not one, but just wanted to defend my “amp in the room” kin 😊
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My take was that the vid was not so much about people who play "amp in the room" and want that to sound right to them, as it is about chasing a recorded tone WITH their amp in the room.
 
elvis said:
My take was that the vid was not so much about people who play "amp in the room" and want that to sound right to them, as it is about chasing a recorded tone WITH their amp in the room.
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Aaaahhhhhh….
I didn’t really consider that.
 
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