Best amp and speakers for ultimate tube amp realism

Ill say this - and all IMO.

Monitors, along with any other true FRFR solution, including the atomics (though there better than a lot) SOUND almost exactly like a tube amp - BUT, they dont feel like one.

Its the ummph, the air behind you, the push and grunt if you know what I mean. ive tried the Atomics, ive tried FBTs, QSCs ARTs and even £1.2k EACH Codas. Nothing sounded quite right. The cosas were the best but still missing something. I do use monitors at home - Adam A7s, but Id still rather run 9and do mostly) my Power amp and cab for practice - even ao low volumes.

Personally I feel the best way to make an Axe rig sound AND feel like a tube rig is a power amp and cab. My current cab is a V30/G12h Aniv mix. It does sound great BUT I cant use cab sims. Its fine for me, and for my current useage because I still get a lot of versatility (think of having a single cab with 30+ heads to put through it) - and loading the cab with a pair of EVM12Ls is my long term goal. there the most neutral true guitar speakers available and have massive power handling. It means you get propper guitar cab feel, with the ability to use (or not as you choose) the cab sims.

As for the Amplification - Valve power amps I had found valve power amps the only way. i used an Art SLA and tried the Rocktron Velocity and QSC offerings (cant get Carvin in the UK easily) - and evded up with a VHT 2:50:2. I prefered it to the Marshalls which sounded fizzy, and the Mesas that had too much Mesa tone going on 9if you get me). Didnt try the engls but have heard great things about them.

THEN, Matrix showed up. The development of the GT800FX from their XT800 has been great. There is still a difference, but its quite subtle and its an EQ thing rather than a respose thing really. The Matrix is stiffer, tighter and harder sounding (which is actually a better fit for some tones - particulary high gain) the VHT is rounder, softer and bouncier. HOWEVER, you can get the Matrix to sound almost identical to the VHT using EQ, and advanced parameters (particularly the B+ value, Sag and Damp) - its harder to get the VHt to sound like the matrix because it always has that bounce and roundness. Thats not a bad thing. i ended up selling the VHT - BUT only because of the weight. If buying new there is the price as well (as I already had the VHt it wasnt a factor for me). Even at $800 the Matrix is cheaper than the VHT, and weights 3.7kg against the VHTs 15kg.

the Atomics are OK - but I found they didnt get that loud, and when pushed got a bit flubby, They do sound better to me (well more like a real amp) at lower volumes, but personally I wouldnt use them for anything other than personal monitoring onstage. I dont think they work as traditional back line. You useage will determin if there a good enough fit for you.

As I said at the start, this is all IMO, but Ive tried a lot of kit trying to get what your after. For me, the choice would be a Matrix GT800FX power amp with a 1 or 2x12 traditional cab loaded with
EVM12Ls. Sounds and feels like a real amp, the speakers can handle the full output of the Matrix, and they sound good at all volumes - including bedroom levels.

However, as DADA has said - IF you can try stuff before you buy do so, and decide with your own ears. The difficulty there is the Matrix is direct only and the Atomics you pay for first (though they do have a 14 day trial so you can send them back).

Only you can make the ultimate desciciopn as to what fits your needs the best.
 
Some thoughts I had,

Well after looking back to a long journey insisting on having a FRFR solution and testing several solutions with great freq and amplitude responses in different price catogories their was always something missing. And as always things start to become more clearer after you experience a difference first hand.

Indeed the EVM12L makes your sound more direct, more real and more "solid". it is not for nothing that this speaker is widely respected in the guitar world. But why did I not get it from the FRFR solutions I tested?

Lets call this more directness, realness and solidness the Mechanical Behaviour of the EVM12L. I therefore come to the conclusion that exactly this MB is greatly needed for a realistic sound and behaviour reproduction of the Axe-Fx patches. So besides the Full Range Flatt Response goals there is another very important aspect needed for the total sound and feel reproduction of your patches.

But to hear this MB of the EVM you need an amp that activates or stimulate these aspects. We know that the VHT and other tube amps are able doing this. And the only SS-amp that comes very close, reading a lot of A/B test and testing it myself, is the GT800FX.

That is why, I think, this GT800FX/EVM12L combo sounds so much more direct, real and solid. Thus like a real tube amp with all its charistics.

Again, just my thoughts.

Regards
 
You guys really sound like you know your stuff. Does anybody know which cab would suit these EVM12L's best; open or closed back? I'm not asking about the "subjective" aspect primarily as I just read on another forum that some speakers just don't sound right in a closed back and visa versa.........
 
For me, I haven't heard the AXE sound better than when its through a tube amp/cab. I do like some of the SS poweramps through a cab too though. The Carvin DCM1540L is great for stuff you can buy new today. The Matrix is a mosfet power amp. I'd like to compare it the the one I have. I have a Carvin FET1000 that sounds great. Also tried it through Mortega76's Carvin F1200 (the same amp Cliff has) and it was good through that - to me, neither were as good as when we played it through a Marshall 9200. FWIW, I tried the Axe through the power section of my Splawn Nitro with KT88s and didn't like it as much. It was better through my Diezel.

Another time we tried the Axe through some nice studio monitors using Redwirez cabs. Everything sounded small. I'm sure if we knew what we were doing, with mic placement on the cabs, we could have gotten it to sound better, but it wasn't gonna be shaking the room like the 412s.

I have a II arriving on Friday and a Fryette 2/90/2 arriving tomorrow. I'm gonna put it through the paces. If the SS sounds as good, I'll return the Fryette.
 
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Yamaha HS80M

Well, I have since bought some Yamaha HS80M's. I needed some good monitors anyway. I figured if playing through them with the Axe Fx wasn't my cup of tea then I could still run it through my Splawn/Marshall cab and get the other effect, or I could pick up some Atomic Reactors or whatever. They sound AMAZING to me. I am still on the waiting list for the Axe Fx II so I have not yet tested it with an Axe Fx. My cousin; however, who has never played anything but tube amps, just bought an Axe Fx Ultra, Atomic Reactor Wedge, and KRK monitors. He has had a chance to run the Axe through both and says they are both amazing. He did say that there was just a very slight difference between the KRK's and the Atomic Wedge, advantage leaning toward the wedges, but with tweaking he thinks he could make them sound exactily the same. looking back the differences that he is hearing doesn't offset the cost of the wedge. He says that the KRK's would be all you would need for bedroom playing and recording. He really likes that you can adjust the "tube sag" knob to get that cranked feel at low volumes. The only way he would buy something larger is if he was on stage. He doesn't have any tube amps anymore and says that he cannot see anyone ever needing anything more than this black box. He is blown away. He is going to come over when I get my Axe Fx II and we are going to A/B them and make some recordings to document the differences. Thanks for all of the great advice fellas. This is truely a great forum.
 
The Axe-Fx II is the first FAS product I ever owned. Got it on Monday. At first I was underwhelmed (and quite frankly disappointed) with the tones listening to it through my headphones.. So, next I plugged it into my Bose Compact- definitely better. Next I plugged it into some KRK Rokit 5 monitors and it was nice to get the stereo sound, but those monitors are a little underpowered IMHO for the Axe. Finally I plugged the Axe into the Effects Return of my Two Rock and had that going into a 1x12 cab. loaded with an EVM-12L. WOW... Could not friggin' believe it.. Sounded pure, rich, organic etc.. I think the lesson to be learned (for me anyways) is that I'm used to hearing a guitar amplified/recorded through a guitar speaker and it really is the only way to capture and display the power and quality of the Axe-Fx.
 
Just the reminder. The axe thru FRFR is supposed to sound like a mic'd amplifier being pushed through a PA, or recorded. NOT the stage sound you get prior to the microphone by standing in front of your stack. You have to decide which is the sound you want. If you want the feel and sound that you get from standing right in front of an amp, and let an sm-57 send your signal to the FOH or to the recording console, then use PA and cab and tune your axe to that and make kickass music.

If you want to know what the FOH is receiving, or dial in your tone exact to what it will be on the recording, then maybe FRFR is the way to go. It's a whole different game of tuning your ears to listen in a different way. It's the classic "Amp in the room" debate. Some people want it, need it. Some want the finished sound instead. There is a distinct difference between those people in the way they tune the axe, the gear they use to monitor, etc. Either way, try a couple different ways, settle on one you like, and make kick ass music!!
 
Yep read it all now, that's very helpful, thankyou so much. Have bought an Ultra, now for the fun part, getting the magic out. I have an OK set of studio monitors, leaning towards the EVM's/Matrix solution for live stuff. One thing I did notice was that there are 2 version of the 12L's, the "Black Label" and the "Classic". Apart from the price, anybody know what is the best option here for the Axe-Fx?
 
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