BASIC set up - Speakers - Power Amp...???

M

MRob

New Member
I have read and read and read... probably too much reading that I am not finding a straight simple answer.

I would like to run the AX8 through one OR two 1x12 Mesa Thiele Cabs. I have a few fundamental questions.

- Can I run the AX8 Stereo? with these two cabs?

What is the easiest way to run this to keep rig weight down/simple and still get killer sound/tone?
- MosValve Power Amp? (Already have one of these)
- New Mini Power Amp on my board (Quilter)?
- Laney IRTX powered speaker? One or two of these? Will the 1x12 Mesa cabs sound better? (or will that matter with the modeling)
- The Alto ts212 powered flat speaker? Or again... will Mesa 1x12 sound better
- Tech 21 Power engine 60 - powered 1x12 guitar cab?

Another fundamental question. If I'm using the AX8 with all the amp modeling etc... then there really is no "need" for the Mesa cabinets right?? I mean, that's the whole purpose of the FRFR Speaker... it WILL sound like a guitar cab due to the AX8 doing its job...right?

Also, IF I go with the flat powered speaker option (FRFR), how do I control the guitar output volume on stage while live? (being so use to the amp master volume etc.)

OR - I suppose I could mount a Matrix GM50 Power Amp Module in the Mesa 1x12 - but then how do I control the volume

With All of these options, I find myself leaning toward the Laney IRTX. It's Simple, Easy, Light, Resonablly priced and I'm Done and it works! My only concern is the 8" speaker!!

I know this is a lot - I'm a newby here, so thank you all of your patience and input. I don't have the AX8 yet, but it's coming!!
 
There are a lot of questions in your post but I'll have a go at a few...
1- yes, you could run the Mesa cabs in stereo provided each cab had it's own Power amp or a stereo power amp feeding it. The AX8 will not power an unpowered cab.
2- NO, NO, NO! AX8 will NOT sound like a guitar cab through an FRFR system. It WILL sound like a guitar cab that has been mic'd up and fed through a PA - there is a difference.
3- Output Volume control can be done directly from the knob on top of the AX8 - simple and easy.

I'm a recent convert to the AX8 and love it - amazing bit of kit.
 
All the gear you mentioned will get you great tone if you know how to set it up! You just have to have an idea what you are going for.

The Ax8 into an FRFR will not sound exactly like listening to an amp through a cab but it will sound like that cab through a recording. You will never get the sound you hear on a cd through a cab but you can pretty much nail any recorded tone with the Ax8 and FRFR. Also, the majority of the audience won't ever hear what you hear if you use a guitar cab but if you use FRFR it will be almost exactly the same tone.
If having the same experience as being in the room with a tube amp is what you are going for, FRFR will be a disappointment. If nailing recoded tones and hearing what your audience hears is what you are after you probably want FRFR.
 
Ahhhhh "Ding Ding Ding!!" I GET it now! Because I'm using the mind blowing amp modulation and all that, running the sound through a guitar cab will not really make much difference! The sound is "modeled" and that is that! Duh!

Yes, I want to hear what the audience hears and I want it to sound Badass like what I hear the guys on youtube getting out of the AX8.
And ohhh.... to be able to hear exactly what they hear?? Wow! Finally...

"it WILL sound like a guitar cab that has been mic'd up and fed through a PA"
"you can pretty much nail any recorded tone with the Ax8 and FRFR"
"the majority of the audience won't ever hear what you hear if you use a guitar cab but if you use FRFR it will be almost exactly the same tone."​

Wow! Ok, so... why mess with a rack power amp and a guitar cab? That's just more stuff to lug around!

I'm pretty sold on FRFR. I like the Laney due to the weight and all that it offers.

Pedal board = AX8, Tuner, Expression pedal -> Laney IRTX = Done! Do I "need" to go stereo? would to IRXTs make a difference??
 
You seesntially have three modeling features with the Fractal gear, not including FX. You have the preamp, the power amp, and cabinets/impulses. When you are using a FRFR setup, you would use all three. If you are using a guitar cab, you would turn off cabs/impulse modeling. If you are using a guitar type amp and cab, you would turn off power amp modeling (turn sag to zero/off in the power amp page), and cab modeling, thus leaving the preamp and FX only. Now certain power amps benifit from a little power amp modeling, if they are relatively flat and unresponsive.

I personaly prefer a real guitar amp and cab with power amp and cab modeling disabled.

For FRFR, if you are playing with a drummer and no PA, the Laney is probably not going to get loud enough. If you are just jamming in your room or recording, I recommend a pair of JBL LSR studio monitors.
 
MRob said:
Ahhhhh "Ding Ding Ding!!" I GET it now! Because I'm using the mind blowing amp modulation and all that, running the sound through a guitar cab will not really make much difference! The sound is "modeled" and that is that! Duh!

Yes, I want to hear what the audience hears and I want it to sound Badass like what I hear the guys on youtube getting out of the AX8.
And ohhh.... to be able to hear exactly what they hear?? Wow! Finally...

"it WILL sound like a guitar cab that has been mic'd up and fed through a PA"
"you can pretty much nail any recorded tone with the Ax8 and FRFR"
"the majority of the audience won't ever hear what you hear if you use a guitar cab but if you use FRFR it will be almost exactly the same tone."​

Wow! Ok, so... why mess with a rack power amp and a guitar cab? That's just more stuff to lug around!

I'm pretty sold on FRFR. I like the Laney due to the weight and all that it offers.

Pedal board = AX8, Tuner, Expression pedal -> Laney IRTX = Done! Do I "need" to go stereo? would to IRXTs make a difference??
Click to expand...

Dont bother with stereo, no one is going to hear it in stereo unless you are playing on a huge stage and have the FOH running in stereo too. Also, are you sure you are set on the Laney IRTX? Take another look at the amps\cabs forum, and you will see a ton of guys who love the sound of the CLR\Matrix\Xitone powered speakers. Not a lot of love for the Laney... Also it is only 200 watts, and you would want to have a lot of headroom with a solid state amp. Why not just use the gear you have, and see whats working and what is not.
 
I have been exploring these options myself and trying various setups since I got my AX8 several months ago. I play mostly in a large church and here are my thoughts thus far.

FRFR - Takes full advantage of all the AX8 has to offer using all 3 of the modeling features mentioned above by vick1000. Also the simplest setup. The AX8 does what it does really well. I've been a tube amp guy for years so there definitely is an adjustment in going from "amp-in-the-room" to FRFR. It's not bad, just different and I'm finding I need to retrain myself in that regard. My FRFR setup has not been quite as simple though since I use an external FX loop with a few outboard Strymon pedals to keep some of the reverb and delays that I've used and it also frees up quite a bit of CPU on the AX8. I Run Out 2 into my FX loop and Out 1 XLR to FOH and Out 1 1/4" to my monitors on stage. I also run in stereo for my onstage monitoring with 2 Yamaha DXR10's. They sound really good but again it is different than an amp and cab.

Stereo Power amp and cabs - this setup sounded good too. I run a Carvin DCM1000 stereo power amp into 2 cabs onstage for monitoring. Cabs each have a 1x12" scumback M75. Since I am using Out 2 for my FX loop I can't have modeling set differently for FOH and my onstage cabs since they both come from Out 1 so I end up putting mics on my cabs to feed FOH. It does sound good and a bit more like the amp-in-the-room feel but I honestly think I miss the cab emulations with this setup. Also, set up is more work and more to haul.

Guitar Amp and cabs - here I've used my Suhr Badger 35 plugging my AX8 Output into the FX return and disabling the AX8 power amp and cab modeling, then running into my 2 cabs and miking them for FOH. This didn't sound bad but is my least favorite setup because I think both of the other options sounded better and this option definitely takes the longest setup time with the most stuff to haul around.

I'm still working this out but I'm pretty confident in the end I'll end up going with the first option using FRFR. It does sound really good and I'm getting more used to the FRFR sound vs amp in the room and it is for sure the best way to take full advantage of the AX8's capabilities and have a consistent sound. It's also the simplest setup with the least amount of stuff to haul. Cheers!
 
chrisjnyc said:
Dont bother with stereo, no one is going to hear it in stereo unless you are playing on a huge stage and have the FOH running in stereo too. Also, are you sure you are set on the Laney IRTX? Take another look at the amps\cabs forum, and you will see a ton of guys who love the sound of the CLR\Matrix\Xitone powered speakers. Not a lot of love for the Laney... Also it is only 200 watts, and you would want to have a lot of headroom with a solid state amp. Why not just use the gear you have, and see whats working and what is not.
Click to expand...
Stereo is lots of fun though!!! I use IEM and play through a stereo PA, it rocks!
 
Wow! More great advice and insight! Thank you all for your time and efforts...

Ok. so... what I have now.
  • A few different guitar cabs, 4x12, 2x12, 1x12, Carvin, Mesa, Genz
  • A few combo amps, JC120, GenzBenz Diablo 1x12, Lin6 1x12 (old model), Trace Elliot
  • Carvin X100B Head
  • Boss ME80
  • 2 Samson Expedition XP112a
  • 2 EV ZLX 12p
  • MosValve Tube Works 962
  • ADA MP2
  • Art old school rack FX
  • Rocktron Hush Super C noise CX
  • KRK Monitor Speakers
  • KRK Sub
  • TC Electronics Acoustic Live
So, I as you can see I have done my share of hauling sh*t around! Not to mention my share of tone and sound searching! Ughhh....
I'm looking for simple, easy, good, quality, rocking sound that will be consistent.

Looks like the AX8 and a good FRFR will be my answer. I WAS leaning towards the Laney, but the more I read the more I have learned. If I'm gonna drop a bit over a grand on the AX8, why then run such amazing technology and mind blowing sound through a 200 speaker??? That is MY own rhetorical question to myself, so now I'm looking at the Matrix wedge, Atomic, Xitone.

I want simplicity, consistency, and easy mobility. While I REALLY liked the light weight feature of the less expensive options, I'm now pretty solid and sold on the Xitone wedge. I've read really good things about Xitone to include great customer service. I also like how it looks! I just looks bad ass! I know that "really" doesn't matter, but if I'm spending that many bones for such good sound AND it can look cool to me, then that does it for me!

Thoughts? Insights?
 
The two EV monitors can do FRFR just fine, not the flattest response but some final EQ should sort them out.
 
MRob said:
Wow! More great advice and insight! Thank you all for your time and efforts...

Ok. so... what I have now.
  • A few different guitar cabs, 4x12, 2x12, 1x12, Carvin, Mesa, Genz
  • A few combo amps, JC120, GenzBenz Diablo 1x12, Lin6 1x12 (old model), Trace Elliot
  • Carvin X100B Head
  • Boss ME80
  • 2 Samson Expedition XP112a
  • 2 EV ZLX 12p
  • MosValve Tube Works 962
  • ADA MP2
  • Art old school rack FX
  • Rocktron Hush Super C noise CX
  • KRK Monitor Speakers
  • KRK Sub
  • TC Electronics Acoustic Live
So, I as you can see I have done my share of hauling sh*t around! Not to mention my share of tone and sound searching! Ughhh....
I'm looking for simple, easy, good, quality, rocking sound that will be consistent.

Looks like the AX8 and a good FRFR will be my answer. I WAS leaning towards the Laney, but the more I read the more I have learned. If I'm gonna drop a bit over a grand on the AX8, why then run such amazing technology and mind blowing sound through a 200 speaker??? That is MY own rhetorical question to myself, so now I'm looking at the Matrix wedge, Atomic, Xitone.

I want simplicity, consistency, and easy mobility. While I REALLY liked the light weight feature of the less expensive options, I'm now pretty solid and sold on the Xitone wedge. I've read really good things about Xitone to include great customer service. I also like how it looks! I just looks bad ass! I know that "really" doesn't matter, but if I'm spending that many bones for such good sound AND it can look cool to me, then that does it for me!

Thoughts? Insights?
Click to expand...
Here is what I do. Wont work for everyone, but works for me. I take my AX8 and a few guitars to the show. I go XLR out to the board. I have a wedge monitor with my own mix (mostly guitar but also vocals as well) for my on stage sound.
 
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