Balanced outputs and "In the room" tone.

Raab90

Raab90

Inspired
Hello!

I have 2 questions:

1) I've just tried hooking up my axe to a PA and 2 FRFR monitors thru the balanced outputs, but i get no sound at all :(
However I can hear my guitar thru headphones plugged into the "Output 1" front panel jack. Is there something I need to set up in the axe fx in order to get sound of the balanced outputs? Or just plugging the TRS cables straight out from the unit to the PA does the job?

2) Because i'm planning on using those FRFR monitors, would disabling the mic simulation and going straight from the cab block out into the PA system through the balanced lines, succesfully emulate the "amp in the room" tone? I just don't see why not. I don't want that mic'd up amp tone, but the amp+cab tone.
I was going thru the "how tos" section at the axe fx wiki and Yek talks about the "amp in the room tone", basically this:

"The Axe-Fx emulates the amp part and the speaker part. The difference is that it emulates a "mic'd" guitar tone, where the mic is very close to the speaker. Not the "in the room" tone, but the guitar as you hear it in concert through a PA-system, or on a CD. A close-mic'd speaker can sound much brighter than when listening to the speaker at a distance. And it won't have any room ambience"

Isn't just disabling the mic sim enough? I mean, the PA and FRFRs are not supposed to color the sound in any way so i should be getting the tone that's coming right out from the cab at the cab block. Or to be more accurate, the sound from one of the speakers of the emulated cab. Having 4 FRFRs would emulate having the actual cab that's being emulated right there in the room no? If there's nothing coloring the sound after the cab simulation, why going thru the hassle of EQing and stuff? Why would i hear any other frequencies that are already being blocked by the cab sim?

Here's the site for reference: http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/index....#How_to_connect_it_directly_to_a_mixing_table

Goto: "How to use it with a FR monitor" > NOTE ON "IN THE ROOM"
 
What mic sims are you talking about disabling?

Are you trying the XLR outputs to your PA?
 
An ir is allways mic'ed. Because you must mic a cab to get an ir.

I hope Cliff will make a IR MODELER. That i would buy. :D




IR's and fx maybe to lighten the burden for those who are heavy on fx.
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
What mic sims are you talking about disabling?

Are you trying the XLR outputs to your PA?
Click to expand...

Yes!, i'm using the XLR outputs to my PA.

And about the mic sims, i'm just using Fractal's stock cabinets, and selecting "None" as the Mic option.

My understanding is that the "None" option disables mic simulation processing, and you will only here the chopped up frequency spectrum that's characteristic to the cab sim you're using, as opposed to selecting "Null", which doesn't color the sound voming out of the cab, but adds the missing low and high freqs that the cab had cut off.
 
Disabling the MIC sim in the cab block basicly, yes, removes the mic. But the listening position would still be 1 inch away from the cabinet. So nope, no "amp in the room" unless you use a farfield IR.
 
Zwiebelchen said:
Disabling the MIC sim in the cab block basicly, yes, removes the mic. But the listening position would still be 1 inch away from the cabinet. So nope, no "amp in the room" unless you use a farfield IR.
Click to expand...
As above - or use a power amp and cab. It's a throw-off for most guitarists to hear the PA-version of their tone from behind them with FRFR, but I think it's worth getting used to. Some people just can't give up the feeling of a cab flapping their trousers though, and I can't say I blame 'em. Go the power amp + cab option if you're the latter.

Raab90 said:
My understanding is that the "None" option disables mic simulation processing, and you will only here the chopped up frequency spectrum that's characteristic to the cab sim you're using, as opposed to selecting "Null", which doesn't color the sound voming out of the cab, but adds the missing low and high freqs that the cab had cut off.
Click to expand...
If I'm reading you right, your understanding of mic sims are a bit off - using Null allows you to take advantage of the proximity effect of mic-ing close to the speaker, and dial in how much you want. The prox effect adds a nice, fairly pleasant low-mids boost. It just does so without the "flavour" of a mic sim ON TOP OF your Cab block / IR.

None removes as much mic flavour as possible and uses no prox effect. There is of course a mic-ing to capture the IR in the first place, but the Fractal cabs and some others (OwnHammer or RedWirez, I forget which) use neutral mics and adjust accordingly to nullify the EQ impact as best possible. Some other major IR companies use "baked-in" mics which is an intentional coupling of the mic (or multiple, mics) flavouring PLUS the intended cab flavour. With this it is highly suggested that you use "NONE" as your Mic type because then you're double mic-ing and that's getting a bit weird. You aren't weird, are you?

Anyway that's my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong!

Edit: Oh actually, if by "adding in the missing frequencies" you mean simulating the prox effect, then you're right - I just wouldn't phrase it that way because the NONE Mic type isn't "missing" anything per se.
 
Omnidirectional microphones (such as the reference mics used to capture many of the cabs in the axe) do not exhibit the proximity effect. The null mic allows you simulate adding this behaviour if desired, but without adding the EQ curve of a mic simulation. It's certainly not wrong to not use it, though. I wouldn't recommend it on the cabs that have mics 'baked in' - as these mics will have the proximity effect baked in too. EDIT: Actually I guess it could come in handy if you wanted to remove some proximity effect from these baked in cabs - especially if they sound boomy. Personally I wouldn't add more, though.

You can't make a FRFR sound identical to an actual guitar cab, because their directivity is different. Its a physical limitation unfortunately, and you can't digitally simulate directivity. You can achieve a very similar tone to a real cab in a room with far field IRs, however it only works as if you were listening to the cab in one listening position and never moved your head in any direction. If you get the far field IR in a cab's sweet spot though, it can sound really nice. Can also be horrible if you have the mic in a bad spot.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom