Backline Advice with AF3 / FM3

M

Matt007

Inspired
Our band is finally practicing again (!!) and I need advice on how everyone manages their rehearsal setup vs their gig setup. Background below on the issues I’ve been having…

For rehearsals, we run vocals and keys through a PA and guitars and bass are just run through our individual unmic’d back line amps/cabs. Drums are not mic’d.

For the last couple months of practice, I’ve struggled to get a good sound to cut through the mix. I’ve tried all the recommended tweaks (more mids, less gain, more volume). Was just really missing that good full thumping, guitar speaker shaking sound using the FM3 into FRFR or external power amps through real cabs (I have PS-2 and SD 170, have not tried a Matrix). Just could not hear or feel myself cutting through the mix. In frustration I brought a cheap tube amp to rehearsal to compare and without tweaking any settings I immediately had that big full sound I was looking for. Zero issues cutting through the mix. So of course I go back to using a real tube amp. Problem solved, right?

Well we get to our first show back last week and guess what, my tone sucked! Could have been the mic position, tube amp settings, drive pedal settings via FM3, etc. but the sound I was looking for just wasn’t there. Leads were flat, power chords were woofy, etc.

So now in true neurotic guitar player fashion I’m totally regretting not going direct with the FM3 at the show. I could have easily had the sound guy put my guitar into the wedge in front of me, which was totally an option.

Sorry for all of the background, my main question is what are your strategies for managing rehearsal setups where you need a backline versus gig setups where you go direct. Would love to find an all in one solution, but I’ve struggled getting Fractal products to work in rehearsal settings when everyone else is using real amps. The only option option I haven’t tried in rehearsal is Fractal through the return of a tube amp so that is definitely another rabbit hole I can go down.

Would love thoughts.
 
If your amp has an fx return you could run output 1 to your amp with out a cab block and power amp disabled on the amp block, run a second grid path with another amp n can block to out 2 to the pa. Or get a good FRFR like the Friedman that thumps like a real cab. I play in a metal band and a single ASM cuts through just fine and hard to tell it’s not a real amp n cab
 
There is no plausible reason why a properly gain staged and eq'd preset (using either Fm3 or AxeFxIII) wouldn't cut through a mix, whether in a live situation or rehearsal unless there wasn't enough power/volume running your monitors/Cabs.
Getting the SE to feed a signal to foldback in a live situation may also help, and/or using IEM's.

I'd suggest uploading a preset for folks to look at and perhaps tweak if necessary.
 
Last edited:
Try recording your tones against a backing track to see how it truly sits in a mix rather than trying to do it in real time. Ever see a video of yourself playing live? Totally different experience than how you perceived it in the moment.

Your ears do that too at rehearsals or on gigs. Record against a track to have a truly objective experience whether your tones are actually "cutting through the mix" or not.
 
I wonder if this may also be an issue re: room size. Typical rehearsal space is much smaller (and often more “live” acoustically) than a gig stage/room, and the “improvement” you hear with an amp may be your speaker output (maybe open back cab, maybe multi-speaker, maybe 4x12?) bouncing sound all around the tight confines of the smaller space, whereas many FRFR cabs have a much more controlled (tighter) dispersion pattern — hence less “bounce” in a smaller space. I’d be interested to know if the FM3 driving two or more FRFR boxes (perhaps “splayed” wide from a single point) might create the same “amp/speaker(s)” effect in the rehearsal space. I’d also be interested to know where you put/pointed the FRFR speaker during rehearsal…
 
Greg Ferguson said:
That's a really good suggestion, but be sure the volumes are at stage volume!
Click to expand...
That's what I normally do before I upload presets. Works a treat.

  • Rehearsal: I take a single CLR in. Axe-FX III or FM3 straight to it, mono. Big clear spread with the CLR. Can't lose.
  • Stage. 2 x NEXO or equivalent monitors in front of me, preferably 12" drivers, in stereo, loud. 100dB at least. If the stage is huge, a satellite placed wherever I may roam. Done.
 
In rehearsals we use 2 x PA's. The band goes through one and I have another (2 x Yamaha DXR 10's) set up next to the main PA. This way I can eq my Axe FX 3 to the rest of the band at a loud volume without upsetting everyone else by fiddling with the desk.

The main culprit for getting lost in a mix I've found is scooping mids. If anything, I have them slightly boosted and although they sound a bit spiky on their own, in a mix with a band (with a loud keyboard player) the slight mid boost really helps.

Real amps can be very focussed so if your on-axis with it - great you will hear it cut through no problem, but move to one side and the sound can disappear.
 
Thanks for all the tips guys. I think my biggest culprit is likely volume (or lack thereof).

I run my real cab through Output 2 to a power amp and I think I’m really starting in the hole with Out2 at the -20db default.

Maybe I’m just scared to really crank the power amp to compensate for the -20db!

Next rehearsal I’m going to bump the Out 2 level up 15 dB or so to try and get closer to Out 1 starting point. That will help me get volume without feeling like I’m pushing the power amp so far.

@Burgs thanks for the advice.
 
I've recently been going thru a very similar thing. I had an AX8 for a few years, then transitioned to a AXE-3 when that was released. I've been using the Atomic CLR. My problem hasn't been with being able to cut through a mix, it's been with the feel of what cuts through. I am not sure how to describe it other than it is lacking. It's probably more an "amp in the room" kinda thing. For recording, it sounds great. But with another guitar player in the room, it's just "lacking." I also find with the CLR that my band mates have a harder time hearing me. The CLR does not fill a space like a 4x12 can.

So this past weekend I tried out the "4CM approach" with my Marshall JVM205. I dialed the tone to be as similar to my CLR preset as I could (similar at the same rehearsal volume levels). At first, I was having troubles taming highs with the 4CM (it was much brighter) and getting all of the correct send levels to properly push but not over-load the amp (there is still an upper mid harshness I need to correct). But I dialed it in pretty close. I then rehearsed with my metal band last night (from Megadeth to Slipknot kind of stuff). The whole band commented on how much fuller everything sounded. It really did fill the void I was feeling.

But I don't want to use this approach. The whole reason I switched to Fractal was to lighten my gig load and stage footprint, and this just undoes all that. Also, I like the detailed tones I can get better using the CLR. But in the mix, the 4CM was fuller, and gave me a more satisfying response. So, all of this gets me wondering; do I need something "better" than my CLR? Do I really "need" to go 4CM? Maybe there's a compromise worth pursuing (rack mount amp with a 4x12 cab)? I don't know right now. But I don't want to spend money just to spend money (with my new sneakers, I will be able to run faster... :) ).
 
Matt007 said:
Thanks for all the tips guys. I think my biggest culprit is likely volume (or lack thereof).

I run my real cab through Output 2 to a power amp and I think I’m really starting in the hole with Out2 at the -20db default.

Maybe I’m just scared to really crank the power amp to compensate for the -20db!

Next rehearsal I’m going to bump the Out 2 level up 15 dB or so to try and get closer to Out 1 starting point. That will help me get volume without feeling like I’m pushing the power amp so far.

@Burgs thanks for the advice.
Click to expand...
What is your live rig setup? Are you hearing almost the same tones of a USB recording as your live rig? Also, you might want to try some of Austin Buddy presets. At least you know they should sound good right out of the box.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom