Backing track for live performance / licensing?

Rich G.

Rich G.

Experienced
My cover band has been asked to play an 80's themed gig. Since the 80's were all about keyboards and big pads, I'm thinking about using keyboard backing tracks. I went to Karaoke-Version in search of backing tracks, which lead me to their FAQ, which lead me to licensing the tracks for live performance, which lead me to Tency Music to obtain licensing. Tency Music wants fine details (List of songs, what kind of tracks we'll need, how long we'll play, how many people will be there, etc...). We're in the early stages of planning this gig so I don't have many details. In summary, the gig is:

One time gig of a cover band playing 80's songs in a small bar to about 50 to 100 people.

Alls I want to know is roughly how much the licensing will cost. If it's $10 for the whole gig, then it's doable... but if it's $100/Song, then we'll have to explore other options.

The fact that there are thousands of videos on YouTube showing how to use backing tracks in Ableton Live with backing tracks in a live performance, but none of those videos address the licensing of said tracks leads me to believe people in general do not obtain licensing.

But maybe I'm overthinking this... Does the BMI/ASCAP license obtained by the venue cover the use of backing tracks by a cover band?

Note: YES, I tried hiring a keyboard player for the gig. My go-to guy is unavailable. :laughing:
 
This is a good question, and I apologize in advance if I don't have a direct, clear answer. Here's my 2¢:

In recent years at open-mics, no license was required because there was no payment for services needed. Since the players were guests of the venue, they did not receive monetary compensation for their performance, and no license was required for using backing tracks as the "house band." Only when pay-for-service is required, that licenses enter into the picture. It also made the case for choosing songs that the actual house bands were able to play along with the guest performer.

There might be a legal loophole if your band received payment on the barter system (food, drink, accommodations, etc) instead of monetary payment. Although I'm not versed in the legal policies of music performance, you might look into this option instead of receiving monetary payment for services rendered.

A third option might be to look for songs that utilized fewer keyboard/big pad tracks that might require backing tracks. You might be able to reduce your overhead expenses by deciding what material is necessary and what isn't. Case in point: Knowing what refinements in your thinking are necessary will improve your savings vs. payout costs.
 
There are two separate issues :

- licensing of specific backing tracks for performance (set by the author/publisher of the tracks)

- song performance rights (covered by ASCAP/BMI license)

Even if the venue has a performance license, you can't use the backing track unless you also satisfy their separate license.
 
fractalz said:
There are two separate issues :

- licensing of specific backing tracks for performance (set by the author/publisher of the tracks)

- song performance rights (covered by ASCAP/BMI license)

Even if the venue has a performance license, you can't use the backing track unless you also satisfy their separate license.
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What if the backing tracks are cover versions performed by various artists who only imitate the original song itself? Not note for note, just a cover version?
 
bleujazz3 said:
What if the backing tracks are cover versions performed by various artists who only imitate the original song itself? Not note for note, just a cover version?
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All the songs over at Karaoke-Version.com are well done cover versions. In their Help section they say proper license is needed:

For the production of recordings, remixes, streaming on music platforms, institutional events, advertising campaigns, shows and TV series, cinema or any other commercial use, please contact our partner Tency Music HERE.

Any reuse of the tracks from our catalog, without a preliminary agreement is an infringement of the rights recognized by French law according to the international conventions laid out on July 3rd, 1985.

To abide by the intellectual and property rights, you must also obtain the necessary authorizations from the rights holders (collective management bodies and/ or music publishers).

Karaoke-Version charges $3 per song, but there is no price listed for licensing. It's like going to a fancy restaurant that doesn't have prices on the menu. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. :smile:

Another option I thought of would be to have my go-to keyboard player create the backing tracks for me.
 
Rich G. said:
All the songs over at Karaoke-Version.com are well done cover versions. In their Help section they say proper license is needed:

For the production of recordings, remixes, streaming on music platforms, institutional events, advertising campaigns, shows and TV series, cinema or any other commercial use, please contact our partner Tency Music HERE.

Karaoke-Version charges $3 per song, but there is no price listed for licensing. It's like going to a fancy restaurant that doesn't have prices on the menu. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. :smile:

Another option I thought of would be to have my go-to keyboard player create the backing tracks for me.
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There's your clue. Commercial use. Commercial use refers to paid services. If your venue is paying you for the gig, it's considered commercial use.

Your only recourse if your planning on utilizing backing tracks is to contact Tency Music for additional information. You have no other choice, but to ask and find out. Tency may offer you an introductory one-time-use package where your gig may not need pay as much as a recurring gig might.

Just delineate what the gig entails in your contact email with Tency, and roll with it. You may find it won't be as bad as you might have guessed originally. In truth, sometimes we place inordinate worry over something that isn't really that bad, and turns out OK in the end. I think you'll be fine if you just connect with Tency and ask about a one-time pricing for licensing.
 
bleujazz3 said:
What if the backing tracks are cover versions performed by various artists who only imitate the original song itself? Not note for note, just a cover version?
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The song is the song not necessarily playing the recorded version. Eg an acoustic version of some song is still the song.

The author of the backing track will say if it is free to use or not.
 
Rich G. said:
All the songs over at Karaoke-Version.com are well done cover versions. In their Help section they say proper license is needed:

For the production of recordings, remixes, streaming on music platforms, institutional events, advertising campaigns, shows and TV series, cinema or any other commercial use, please contact our partner Tency Music HERE.

Any reuse of the tracks from our catalog, without a preliminary agreement is an infringement of the rights recognized by French law according to the international conventions laid out on July 3rd, 1985.

To abide by the intellectual and property rights, you must also obtain the necessary authorizations from the rights holders (collective management bodies and/ or music publishers).

Karaoke-Version charges $3 per song, but there is no price listed for licensing. It's like going to a fancy restaurant that doesn't have prices on the menu. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. :smile:

Another option I thought of would be to have my go-to keyboard player create the backing tracks for me.
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The stuff they list are basically major events, a bar performance is likely covered by their $3 fee.

But, you can't put it in a movie, tv show, your album without a separate license.
 
JoKeR III said:
As long as you're not recording the gig, this license should be all that's needed. Recording covers is a completely different discussion.
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To clarify, recording + redistributing the recording would be a copyright infringement. Simply recording your gig for you to listen to or to send to clubs as an audition is fine.
 
fractalz said:
The song is the song not necessarily playing the recorded version. Eg an acoustic version of some song is still the song.

The author of the backing track will say if it is free to use or not.
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That's good to know. Some backing track websites also detail whether the purchased tracks can be used for live performance or not. It's the ones that don't that might require separate licenses, which is almost what you said.
fractalz said:
The stuff they list are basically major events, a bar performance is likely covered by their $3 fee.

But, you can't put it in a movie, tv show, your album without a separate license.
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Yup. You gotta wonder if folks who post YT vids are aware of backing track song rights?
 
fractalz said:
To clarify, recording + redistributing the recording would be a copyright infringement. Simply recording your gig for you to listen to or to send to clubs as an audition is fine.
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Infringement might also inadvertently include folks who record and publish bootlegs from a gig that utilizes backing tracks.

EDIT: I see that's been covered in previous posts.
 
bleujazz3 said:
That's good to know. Some backing track websites also detail whether the purchased tracks can be used for live performance or not. It's the ones that don't that might require separate licenses, which is almost what you said.

Yup. You gotta wonder if folks who post YT vids are aware of backing track song rights?
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Hah, YT has an elaborate song detector that will block your video if it has copyrighted content. They had to do that to not get sued, any more.
 
fractalz said:
To clarify, recording + redistributing the recording would be a copyright infringement. Simply recording your gig for you to listen to or to send to clubs as an audition is fine.
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Recording to send to clubs for auditions would fall under redistributing.
 
JoKeR III said:
Recording to send to clubs for auditions would fall under redistributing.
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No. It's a private use. You aren't making money for that reproduction. You may make money for a gig it earns you, but you don't charge for the demo tape so you are ok.
 
fractalz said:
Hah, YT has an elaborate song detector that will block your video if it has copyrighted content. They had to do that to not get sued, any more.
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I think SoundCloud has similar features. I once tried using a GarageBand loop that was a lengthy acoustic guitar clip, as a backing track for a reading of my Dad's memoirs which I'd thought to record for posterity. SoundCloud challenged my use of the loop, stating infringement. Didn't quibble, and deleted the recording rather than risk being sued by whoever recorded the loop for GarageBand.

I never quite understood why, since GarageBand was designed to be used for creating you own material and songs. Apparently some of GarageBand's material is not sanctioned for public use on SoundCloud and must be kept for your own personal use.

I did eventually re-record the reading with my acoustic playing as an intro-outro. SoundCloud didn't question that, thankfully, and a portion of my Dad's memoirs still resides on SoundCloud to this day. I hope to eventually complete recording my Dad's memoirs someday, but I'm also working on my own memoirs which unfortunately are 4 times the length of Dad's self-published material. (Someone else will need to record that after I've gone to rest...)
 
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bleujazz3 said:
I think SoundCloud has similar features. I once tried using a GarageBand loop that was a lengthy acoustic guitar clip, as a backing track for a reading of my Dad's memoirs which I'd thought to record for posterity. SoundCloud challenged my use of the loop, stating infringement. Didn't quibble, and deleted the recording rather than risk being sued by whoever recorded the loop for GarageBand.

I never quite understood why, since GarageBand was designed to be used for creating you own material and songs. Apparently some of GarageBand's material is not sanctioned for public use on SoundCloud and must be kept for your own personal use.
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Like almost all sample and loop libraries, GB loops are royalty free and you are permitted to distribute projects that use them as you wish, with one exception: don’t resell them unmodified as a sample or loop library of your own.

The automated tools that YouTube and SoundCloud rely on are not perfect however, and they make mistakes.
 
fractalz said:
No. It's a private use. You aren't making money for that reproduction. You may make money for a gig it earns you, but you don't charge for the demo tape so you are ok.
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Private use is personal use which excludes sharing with anyone. It could possibly fall under Fair Use but receiving money or not doesn't matter.
 
JoKeR III said:
Private use is personal use which excludes sharing with anyone. It could possibly fall under Fair Use but receiving money or not doesn't
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As a practical matter, no one who cares will know if you share a recording with your mom, kid or venue owner.

The laws are there to prevent commercial use - profiting directly from someone else's material. Say, by playing it over a loudspeaker, posting a cover on iTunes. Although, covers were so common that there is a statutory rate that you pay and don't need to get a contract to sell your cover.

Fair use is typically using a portion of someone else's recording.
 
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