AXEII or Kemper - Need hear these TM's to decide which to get

I'm in the same situation as the OP.
For me it's about keeping the Eleven Rack I have now, or get the Axe... But I'd like to share some thoughts I've been having.
KPA is not in my list. Profiling/Tone Match isn't a priority for me, even though it's nice to have that included. I just believe that the Axe have better basic tone built in from scratch.
Eleven Rack is really great, I get nice tones out of it, there are however a few things that is not so good.

* I'm a Cubase guy really, Pro Tools is included and needed for the Eleven if I want to use the editor, but it's very picky about hardware and I've got many VST-plugs that need a wrapper to work. And after many years with Cubase it feels so-so to dive into a new DAW because I got a piece of hardware...
* Development and updates are almost unheard of for the Eleven. Yes this last update was really good, but otherwise nothing happens for years.

In the things above the Axe shines. I have no fancy tube amps, so I don't really need to profile. If anything, the Tone Match in the Axe suits me better, cause matching tones from soundclips I might actually do sometimes.
I think that effects, routing possibilities and tone (without profiling) is better in the Axe than both Eleven and KPA. I don't know this for sure, but after researching and listening to a zilllion clips I have that feeling?

One thing I would like to see in the Axe is mic input with phantom power. I do record acoustic and vocal sometimes, with a condenser mic. But I can get a cheap preamp for that.

So I'm leaning heavily towards an AxeII. The fact that it's instantly improving is a BIG factor for me. Yes, it is expensive, but I can afford it. If I were poorer I wouldn't hesitate to keep the Eleven, be happy with it, and use the money for other things...
 
Some general thoughts for anyone who wants to compare an apple and an orange...

First question, how complex do you need the rig?
I own both and will keep both. If you ask a preference on a product forum-that is what you'll get. Since I have both, love both, I'll give you the straight scoop-they both are great. I know... Hard to believe that two products can exist in the same universe. Your mission, accept it or not, is to make a decision based on your needs. Are you the "plug my cable into the one channel three knob amp and I'm done" kinda guy? Or are you the "what do you mean I don't have room for three pedal boards on stage" kinda guy? Do you play one kind of music, or 20 kinds of music? Since there will never be one answer to a question (or there wouldn’t be a question-would there?) You need to spend some time and figure out what will fit your needs. As stated, I own both, and use them in two different bands...

Second question-how much can you afford?
BandA(KPA)--the perma-basement band. A bunch of friends, been getting together for years. I doubt I'll ever get them out of the basement again. Managed it a few times, but it just isn’t worth the effort I use the kemper here. It is straight stuff. Rock, classic rock type tunes. My typical rigs would be a fender clean, bogner, orange, mesa and a marshall of some sort. I use some trem on a song or two-some wah, not much more. Rocktron all-access to control it. 2 exp pedals, volume and wah. Powering it with an EHX 44mag to a 2x12 and a QSC K8. Kemper has put out drawing of what the foot controller will look like...so it is on the horizon, but months away at best. There have been sightings of a power unit that will fit in the hole in the back. No idea on specs. But that turns it basically into a micro head a little bigger than a tiny terror-with a 1000 amps inside. Cool idea. For this band, the kemper is more than enough. Sounds like an amp(s), and provides enough effects for this application. Playing it is a joy because all of the knobs are right there on the front. Just like an amp. Turn this, turn that-save it-done. Get back to playing. I keep my kemper super-simple by locking the effects globally(you can lock a lot of things-nearly everything so they are the same for each preset) So I have the same "pedal board" for every amp. Price as playing it today-kpa/controller/power options=~$3200

BandB(AXE2)-the playing out band. Been playing in this group less than a year. My typical rigs would be a fender clean, bogner, orange, mesa and a marshall of some sort. (see what I did there?) However, I also use violin and cello on a half dozen songs. Mainly pink floyd tunes(violin and some synth), turn the page(sax), the world I know(cello), eleanor rigby(violin and cello) a few others. Soooo many more I/O options, there really is no comparing the two units if this is something you want to delve into. MFC-101 to control, 2 exp pedals vol/wah, also rate on the B3, ebow control, a few other odds and ends. Powering it with a matrix 1K to a 2x12 and an RCF 10 inch. (both much more expensive that the counterparts above). The band loves the axe2. They liked the KPA, but they miss the cello and stuff. Amp to amp tone wise, they didn’t really care. They both sound stellar-they wanted the extras the axe provides.
Price as playing it today-axe2/controller/power options=~$6000 (yes, better components augment the price difference)

Third question, what are you using it for?
Some costs can be avoided if, for instance, you never plan on playing live-you don't need a foot controller. If you are just going through studio monitors-you don't need that power piece either. And if you do, I've powered the axe with the kpa components and it works just fine, so whichever way you go, you have more decisions to make.

Final thoughts:
Both units rock. The folks that love to knock one or the other on either board are just silly. Heck, my home rig is a GSP1101 and it rocks. Figure out your budget, get what fits it and play some music. If money is no option, and you aren’t daunted by more settings than any human could ever want or need, get the axe2 and know you have the most complete system that money can buy. If you have a more restrictive budget or just hate menu screens, just want to plug in and rock and turn a knob once in a while-the KPA might be a better fit. Either way, you get a ton of shared info and forum support. You get rocking tones, and you get ongoing updates, upgrades and future developments.
 
The great thing abut having the best solution is that you stop spending time wondering if you have the right solution. Time is greater than money in the end. Buy once, buy right and be done wondering.

Other solutions are great/workable/etc, but in terms of feel and responsiveness and unmatched customer support over YEARS, the holy grail to me, the Fractal and the AF2 are unmatched.

mp3s of lots of things sounds the same, go crazy listening to clips if you hate yourself... and if mp3 output is your goal, and feel is not a big concern, any of these will make workable sounds. truthfully they will.

the time I've saved by having the axe and not having to notice or care was worth any dollar difference with cheaper solutions.

happy monday!
 
Well said, carydad, I agree with you for the most part.
I also got the two machines, but I built a rack in order to play them together in a sort of bi-amping configuration (plus an external fx).
I did a lot of comparisons Axe II vs KPA vs real amps "on the fly", thru my main monitors or my amp&cab.
The very first obvious thing I can say is that you cannot evaluate Axe or KPA just listening to the (tons of) recorded samples...
The second is: also with the machines in your hands, the learning curve is at least 1 or 2 months (less if you can spend 18 hours/day :D), so IMHO is really really difficult to make a decision without hours of testing.

Now, avoiding to repeat the just well explained features of both units, my added value could be trying to explain the "play feeling".
In the way I usually play (more rythmic lines than solos), the best response comes from KPA. With KPA I could better hear the emulated valve transition from clean to distortion. I usually make this test: with guitar volume at maximum, I play a chords "from smooth to loud" listening to the gradual response. A pure digital amp usually fails this test because the sound "from smooth to loud" is similar apart from the volume.
Both Axe and KPA make a good job but, in this particular field, IMHO KPA translates better the amp behaviour.

FXs are good in both machines, I prefer the quality of the KPA ones but with Axe you have more weapons (the pitch fx, for example).

Also if one is not interested in amp profiling, with KPA you can benefit from the rig exchange, a land of "just profiled" amps. The cons: IMHO only 10% of the profiled amps are really usable, so you have to spend time on browsing and listening...
The Axe Tone Match is a gold feature but, as noted, I think should be used "with caution". It helps a lot to shape your sound as a "liked" one, but isn't a wand. Amp response remains in the Amp block!!!

Vernon
 
Completely agree. Though I didnt have the pretty words! The KPA is more immediate to me as well. I could easily mistake it for my old modena 60 sitting behind me. I think the curve on the kemper is smaller, but that is both because it is directly proportional to the depth of the unit, as well as spending time on the ultra and axe2-that the kemper seems easier. My current addiction is grabbing those darn rigs daily and spending time messing with them. I purposefully left the axe2 and kpa at the band sites-just so I have nothing to do BUT practice. Now I just have folders of tones and rigs building up...
 
Vernon said:
FXs are good in both machines, I prefer the quality of the KPA ones but with Axe you have more weapons (the pitch fx, for example).
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Even most kemper owners prefer the Axe Fx effects. This is the first review I read where we find the opposite opinion. Interesting.
 
I own both units, they are two different products with their pros and cons. They are both available with decent money-back periods, I can promise you that the only way to decide which works for you is to test them for yourself. Even if you have to pay postage it's worth it to get the right unit when you're spending a couple of grand.

Spence
 
zentman said:
Even most kemper owners prefer the Axe Fx effects. This is the first review I read where we find the opposite opinion. Interesting.
Click to expand...
I think is a matter of taste. Again, in the way I mix fx with direct sound, KPA effects give me a more stereo image and depth. In my chain I've got an Eventide Eclipse too, that's almost always the first choice for complex fxs.
 
Rane said:
Buy the AxeFx II. If you don't love it, sell it for profit. :) The Kemper won't tone-match a recording anyway, will it? Plus it's ugly. >.>
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it's not ugly... it's the ugliest tool made to plug a guitar into it.. made on the face of Planet Earth...
only one sight to this kemper and all my inspiration goes bye-bye...
 
I'd love to have both just to play about with but just couldn't justify the expenditure on that particular area of my rig. Had to make a decision and went with the one that looked to have the more suitable functions for what I need.

I just tell myself that instead of spending more in that area I can get myself another guitar or two someday instead - immediate pleasure, new tones & minimal tweaking. Just harder to hide from the missus! Not that she would notice when they're camouflaged by the others but my kids have sharper eyes and loose tongues! :)
 
You'll be able to get all of those sounds with either product, and both have excellent resale. Just grab one and don't think so much. If you're more of an 'amp in the room' kind of player and prefer having everything at yours hands to tweak, the Kemper might be better. If you're looking for recorded sounds and don't mind working with the LCD screen, then the Axe FX might be. The Axe FX II has better options when it comes to effects and processing, if that's something to be concerned about. You will be content with either, so take the plunge and don't think so much about this gear vs that gear, blah blah... make some music.
 
I had KPA for few months and while at studio/bedroom it sounds good, I was disappointed while plying live with it..The worst thing was obvious latency (much bigger than in Axe or whatever I tried before)..
second thing : work with volume knob was a joke..strange plastic sound in my case ( I was on 1.07 FW)..Effects (sounds good) but it's control ability is a joke..really annoying..you can do nothing with it..
When change your presets it was half of second gap between..WTF....
If you play live especially with real tube power amp and real guitar cab,as I do, KPA to me was a waste of money nad time..
Maybe with new FW they will improove but my experience with it was like I said..
Thanks,
jacek
 
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