AxeFxIII Digital Routing Possibilities

BTU

BTU

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Hi everyone!

I'm using AFXII in fx-loop of AFXIII via analog connections: AFXIII Out3 -> AFXII In1, AFXII Out1 -> AFXIII In3. Thereby I can place AFXII effects chain anywhere in my AFXIII preset. It's very flexible and powerfull setup that works fine for me but is there any chance to run same setup via S/PDIF? For example, if I'll set Input 3 source to digital for AFXIII and input source to digital for AFXII and then connect S/PDIF In of one device to Out of another... Is there some limitations (clock or other settings)? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any hints and tips)
 
I run my Ax3-mk1 output1 into my Ax2-mk1 input1 via S/PDIF, and, my Ax2 output1 into my Interface via S/PDIF to yeild an "extended Ax3" that includes my 10x10 audio interface, and Reverbs / Synths running in Ax2, all with no A>D / D>A conversions occuring between the boxes given digital connections. Works great!

It's been a while since I tried to put Ax2 in the loop of Ax3 with digital connections, but I believe I ran into an issue in that my Ax2 Mk1 could not be both master and slave at the same time - something like that, but I prefer my current config anyway as I'm using the loops as follows:
  • Ax3 Loop4 - Digitech Freqout (Pre Distortion) on Left, Digitech Mosaic 12 String simulator on Right (never used simultaneously).
  • Ax3 Loop3 - A midi loop switcher (Pre Distortion, or in lieu of Ax3 modelled distortion depending on the patch) that loops into: a selection of external OD / DS / Fuzz pedals, the preamp sections of my Blackstar and H+K tube amps (specific patches are dedicated to one or the other) , a Strymon Iridium in stereo, a TC Mimiq, an L6 M5
  • Ax3 Loop2 - Post Distortion to an external Source Audio Delay, and Eventide H9 pedals.
  • Ax2 Loop2 - to the attenuated power section of my H+K head (for the related patch I have post power amp cab IRs + FX set up on the Ax2).
I built a switching system that synchronizes both Axfx units so that = preset and scene changes occur on both, as well as Fx control operating seamlessly on either unit (or on the midi controllable external pedals) depending on where I put a given effect. There is also some global switches set up that swap internal Axfx fx blocks (pre mods, post mods, delays, or drives) for external fx (H9,M5,SA...) for any of 32 standard kitchen sink style patches seamlessly without any rewiring and without changing any physical switch locations or behavior for the swapped fx (currently the system uses 35 control switches and 8 expression pedals).

I've spent far too much time building this mostly purposeless switching monster (basement player) instead of practicing technique, but it's sooo much fun!
 
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That should work fine. Both are capable of clocking internal or external. Just set one to internal clock and the other to external.
 
GlennO said:
That should work fine. Both are capable of clocking internal or external. Just set one to internal clock and the other to external.
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doesn't work with my AxII-mk1 as menton above - couldn't get it to do both s/pdif in (from Ax3) and out (to Ax3). Maybe I missed something / subsequent Ax2 versions may work, dunno.
 
I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work. What exactly was the problem? "master and slave at the same time" makes it sound like both were set to internal clock.
 
GlennO said:
I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work. What exactly was the problem? "master and slave at the same time" makes it sound like both were set to internal clock.
Click to expand...
Was a while ago so don't really remember the exact issue - am trying it again now so I can post proper info - will add my finding in a few min
 
so setting it up like below with Ax3-S/PDIF-Out > Ax2-S/PDIF-In / Ax2-S/PDIF-Out > Ax3-S/PDIF In, and rebooting Ax3 then Ax2, I still get no sound thru the loop. Also tried setting Word Clock to "auto" on Ax2 and/or "S/PDIF" on Ax3, but still no go. Genn, maybe you can explain further as my knowledge is sketchy, but, I thought I understood that in order for this to work, both boxes need to be capable of both synching outwardly to another unit (i.e Ax3 using it's clock wrt the Ax3>Ax2 connection, and Ax2 using its clock wrt the Ax2>Ax3 connection) and, vise versa (inwardly) for connections coming back - tho this suggests the two units are operating on 2 clocks which never made sense to me.

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Yeah, there can only be one clock. I’m not sure why you’re not getting audio. If I have time this weekend I’ll try it. In the mean time, check to see how far the audio is getting. And verify spdif is working on both units, including verifying the cables.
 
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GlennO said:
Yeah, there can only be one clock. I’m not sure why you’re not getting audio. If I have time this weekend I’ll try it. In the mean time, check to see how far the audio is getting. And verify spdif is working on both units, including verifying the cables.
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Cables are good as I use both in the "Extended" config mentioned above (Ax3 >dig> Ax2 >dig> Audio Interface). The patches test ok as the signal goes through fine if the loop is connected in analogue. I know the signal gets into Ax2 Output as I can see the meters running and hear it if plugging headphones into Ax2. It's the connection back from Ax2 to Ax3 that is the issue but I'm not sure which end is having a problem. Anyway, I'm not too concerned as I don't use this config any longer (its all coming back to me now (getting old lol!) as I went through this same testing 3 or 4 years ago but never found the cause), but the OP might run into it if he's using an Ax2-Mk1. I'm curious to see what happens there depending on which version he has.

What I ended up concluding about this issue before (have the same issue with my Roland Octacapture Interface), is that some boxes can send and receive S/PDIF simultaneously just fine, but just not to/from the same external box.
 
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GlennO said:
Yeah, there can only be one clock.
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The problem is that no clock source is possible in this scenario. No Axe-FX model has been able to use its internal clock and SPDIF audio input simultaneously. It's the same reason why the other interface needs to be the clock source in a 2-way SPDIF setup between Axe-FX & some other interface.

BTU said:
is there any chance to run same setup via S/PDIF?
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I don't know if you'd find it worth the trouble, but you could add an audio interface with SPDIF in/out to the loop to act as clock source. You'd probably want something that can run in standalone mode if this was its main purpose. Something like a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 would work. If you have access to a firewire port, a Saffire Pro 14 or 24 would probably cost less than a used 6i6.
 
Bakerman said:
The problem is that no clock source is possible in this scenario. No Axe-FX model has been able to use its internal clock and SPDIF audio input simultaneously. It's the same reason why the other interface needs to be the clock source in a 2-way SPDIF setup between Axe-FX & some other interface.


I don't know if you'd find it worth the trouble, but you could add an audio interface with SPDIF in/out to the loop to act as clock source. You'd probably want something that can run in standalone mode if this was its main purpose. Something like a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 would work. If you have access to a firewire port, a Saffire Pro 14 or 24 would probably cost less than a used 6i6.
Click to expand...
I remember trying something like this also, and it not working - as soon it goes circular there's a problem where the last unit in the loop needs to connect back to the 1st unit and can't, but, connecting them in a straight line, without the end's connected, it's ok. I'll see if I can test Ax3 > Ax2 > Roland interface > Ax3 to confirm.
 
I just tried it with a 8i6 and it works. Axe-FX III -> 8i6 -> Axe-FX II -> Axe-FX III.

I don't understand that limitation on the Axe-FX. It seems like that should be permitted with the understanding the other device is using the Axe-FX as a clock source. After all, the 8i6 permits that without any problem. Is that limitation documented anywhere?
 
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GlennO said:
I'm sure there's a good reason for that limitation on the Axe-FX, but it seems odd. Is that documented anywhere?
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I don't think the reason was documented anywhere, but the Axe-FX 1 & II manuals imply that selecting SPDIF/AES input will only use that as the clock source. The Axe-FX III manual seems less clear.
 
It seems like it's intended to work on the III. Otherwise, why add the "Internal" option that the II lacks? It would certainly be useful if it worked. The fact that this limitation is not mentioned in the manual makes me wonder if it might be a bug? @Admin M@
 
sprint said:
so setting it up like below with Ax3-S/PDIF-Out > Ax2-S/PDIF-In / Ax2-S/PDIF-Out > Ax3-S/PDIF In, and rebooting Ax3 then Ax2, I still get no sound thru the loop. Also tried setting Word Clock to "auto" on Ax2 and/or "S/PDIF" on Ax3, but still no go. Genn, maybe you can explain further as my knowledge is sketchy, but, I thought I understood that in order for this to work, both boxes need to be capable of both synching outwardly to another unit (i.e Ax3 using it's clock wrt the Ax3>Ax2 connection, and Ax2 using its clock wrt the Ax2>Ax3 connection) and, vise versa (inwardly) for connections coming back - tho this suggests the two units are operating on 2 clocks which never made sense to me.

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Trying same scenario (but with I/O 3 on AxeFx3) with same results (no sound). So that's why I'm here)))
Cables are ok, devices are ok (successfully using it with scarlett 6i6: 6i6 spdif out > AxeFx spdif in, AxeFx spdif out > 6i6 spdif in)
 
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Bakerman said:
I don't know if you'd find it worth the trouble, but you could add an audio interface with SPDIF in/out to the loop to act as clock source. You'd probably want something that can run in standalone mode if this was its main purpose. Something like a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 would work. If you have access to a firewire port, a Saffire Pro 14 or 24 would probably cost less than a used 6i6.
Click to expand...

I have scarlett 6i6. Thanks for advice, will try this scenario!
 
sean.e said:
Here are a few threads re: setting up clock while using Ax3 in a digital loop:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-iii-spdif-connection-questions.186021/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/clocking-problems.185976/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/neve-1073-dpx-digital-card-aes-problem.179411/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/wish-spdif-in-and-spdif-out-block.176663/
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Interesting. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but "The FXIII can't be word clock master when using SPDIF loop (both in and out)" doesn't exactly describe what's happening. It's obviously capable of being the clock master. It seems like it's more like: spdif input is disabled when the clock is set to internal. Maybe there's a reason for that, but I'd be surprised since other audio interfaces can do that, so it might be a bug. At the very least it's a puzzling undocumented behavior.
 
Yeah, my wording isn't because I have inside knowledge of the Ax3; it's more prescriptive: if you want to use the Ax3 in a digital loop, and want to be able to hear the digital input, then you should not make it the clock master.
 
GlennO said:
I just tried it with a 8i6 and it works. Axe-FX III -> 8i6 -> Axe-FX II -> Axe-FX III.
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Which version of Ax2 do you have?

I just tried:
  • Ax3 > Roland Intrfc > Ax2 > Ax3: No Go.
  • Ax3 > Ax2 > Roland Intrfc > Ax3: No Go.
Again, as I recall from initial testing I did years ago, anything circular does not work with Ax2-mk2+Ax3-mk1, even adding in more devices. In either scenario above, the sound cannot get back to Ax3 - in both cases, disconnecting S/PDIF from Ax3 and connecting in line (no longer circular) to separate monitors via S/PDIF yields sound.
 
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