AXE through Amp/Cab - Experience with Tech21 Power Engine?

JRod4928

JRod4928

Power User
For those of you who run your rig through an amp/cab, have you had experience with the Tech 21 Power Engine? If so - what are your thoughts?

I'm on a strict budget of no more than $250, and I'm looking for a solution to use in live situations only. I use Equator D5's for FOH preset fine-tuning. I've tried various FRFR setups, and I'd like to give a amp-cab setup a shot.
 
You mean the one from 2013 that you replied to? I already read it, and the ones on TGP, and used google search to try to find more info on both forums.

The problem is that often times info is dated, and since then, some may have experimented with speakers, converting to closed back, etc., which results in a different experience, hence why I asked the question.
 
I have one. The cab is a good quality build and the speaker is fine in my opinion. The power amp is based off of a single chip design and seems to be fine at reasonable volume. I would imagine that if I cranked it it would probably add color to the sound. I use it at fairly low levels and used no IR into the amp. The real issue for me is that there is an EQ section at the front end of the amp and I just don't want the variable; just a flat amp and a guitar speaker. Others may see the EQ as a plus. So, I replaced the electronics with an old crown dc75 ran in bridged mode. I also plan to add some fender tilt back legs. I bought this amp because a guitar speaker on stage was the best solution for 1 particular "gig/group" I play with and I wanted really small, light weight, and compact solution. By the way, this cab is lighter than my FRFR speakers.

Bottom line is that you can pick one up used for around $300 or so ( I think I paid $250 on Ebay), and you have a good lower volume powered guitar cabinet that is light weight and easy to transport. I am going for clean to slight break up sounds; classic fender and vox type stuff and the amp works good for this. I think its a good value if it fits your need. If you need volume look else where.
 
guitarmike said:
I have one. The cab is a good quality build and the speaker is fine in my opinion. The power amp is based off of a single chip design and seems to be fine at reasonable volume. I would imagine that if I cranked it it would probably add color to the sound. I use it at fairly low levels and used no IR into the amp. The real issue for me is that there is an EQ section at the front end of the amp and I just don't want the variable; just a flat amp and a guitar speaker. Others may see the EQ as a plus. So, I replaced the electronics with an old crown dc75 ran in bridged mode. I also plan to add some fender tilt back legs. I bought this amp because a guitar speaker on stage was the best solution for 1 particular "gig/group" I play with and I wanted really small, light weight, and compact solution. By the way, this cab is lighter than my FRFR speakers.

Bottom line is that you can pick one up used for around $300 or so ( I think I paid $250 on Ebay), and you have a good lower volume powered guitar cabinet that is light weight and easy to transport. I am going for clean to slight break up sounds; classic fender and vox type stuff and the amp works good for this. I think its a good value if it fits your need. If you need volume look else where.
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Thanks for the reply. how would you describe the comparison between the stock electronics and the crown dc75 electronics? We're you essentially trying to remove another tone stack in the chain?
 
I actually liked the active tone stack. It's a good way to dial out some of the coloration of the speaker.

Alternative is adjusting on the patch, but then out PE output might sound good, but then to your studio monitors or FOH can sound off.

Think of the eq as a means to adjust for the non flat nature of the PE and allow your settings to translate to it better

Then tape the knobs down so they don't get bumped
 
I've used PE 60's before (now CLR). It's not FRFR, but if you're after tones that are in a particular range (not all over the map) it might work fine for you. I used Fenderish low to medium gain tones mostly and I could get sounds that were pretty good with the PE 60. Something that you might find used that was a big step up is RCF 310a or 312a. There's a 312a at GC used for $300 now. I found a pair of 310a's for $500. It was a lot better than the PE60, much closer to FRFR, louder if needed and much more versatile. I now used them as small PA speakers or monitors depending on situation and they're very decent for the $ in that role. I like them way better than Mackie 450's that I had before them.
 
I appreciate the 2 cents, but I don't need to get a perfectly flat rig. I have my studio monitors to take care of that so I can set up patches for gigs to send that signal to FOH. For live monitoring - I'll fiddle with the PE60's on-board settings to get an EQ that's usable for live use. It's somewhat a financial decision, but it's also a tone decision. From my experience with FRFR, there's just something I can't jive with... I want to give a guitar amp a shot and see how it goes since I Don't have cash for a high quality FRFR rig.

The PE60 seems like a good platform with which to experiment with speaker swaps, open/closed back modifications, etc. and I found one for $200, so it's a cheap experiment that I can probably sell and break even, if needed. If I like it - I could foresee myself buying 2 of them and keeping 1 open backed and 1 closed backed with 2 different speakers inside. I want to experiment with this one though - hence the thread :)
 
The crown amp is a studio quality single rack space class ab amp. http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/crown/d-75.htm It is a better amp than whats in the Tech 21. But I don't think the tech 21 is that bad; especially if the volume is considered and the Eq is something you want. I do not use Ir's into this amp. I wanted the speaker to shape the sound with no eq to influence that at all. I could not be sure that the eq was not influencing the amp and there was no realistic way to bypass it. So, by going to the crown amp, I get a better amp with no coloration even at pretty much full power (80-90 watts rms). I have also used several different speakers in this amp. I can't remember what's in there right now.
The amp was about $125 off ebay and required a slight mod to the rack ears to fit. I tried to upload a pic but got an error. I have about $375 in it.
 
Wow I think you'be done exactly what I would hope to do except I will probably do all of that without switching the power amp.

I hate to use the cliche, but does this accomplish the amp in the room feel that everyone talks about? What speakers did you try? At this point the power engine is an enclosure that you're using to install speakers and your power amp... why did you choose to use the power engine as opposed to another type of similar sized cabinet? Or did you originally buy it in hopes it would not need any modifications, but it didn't?
 
I chose the PE because it was small, light, and cheap. I would have never bought a new one, but used, the price was right.

As far as the speaker; I know I tried a celestian g12t75 but I think I ended up putting a speaker from a fender amp in it. I can't check because I not with my stuff right now but I know it wasn't a jenson. My PE came with a 70/80 celestian and I used that speaker for a while and, to be honest, could have continued to use it.

Of course I hoped that it would work with out any modification, ...and it did. But, that EQ was just something I wanted to eliminate. I wanted amplification that was flat and in no way colored what was happening in the axefx and the speaker. I can send one feed to the amp and the other to my studio monitors and compare the two in real time. I can blend the two together and simulate my live setup with this rig, ect.

And now, the question every body wants to know, DOES IT SOUND LIKE AN AMP IN THE ROOM? :)
Absolutely, without question, YES! It sounds like a tube amp in an open back cabinet. I have even mic'd it like you would a tube amp. But, I must say that it is far more convenient to send an out put with an appropriate IR straight to the board.
 
Cool! That's great news haha. I just got mine and played it last night. It sounds fantastic for clean or edge of breakup tones. With cab simulation off. Wow this EQ is powerful. Gotta be careful with that.

I played higher gain tones and it sounds a little grainy in the upper frequencies with some amps. I heard a shootout between the 70 80, greenbacks, and creambacks, and I'm thinking the graininess is from the 70 80 as that's how it sounded in the shootout. Would you agree?

I'm assuming it's because the 70 80 is intended to be more transparent so it isn't rolling off the highs like a normal speaker would. With cab simulation on, it sounds overly processed and unnatural to my ears and you lose a lot of the detail in the distortion.

Would you recommend swapping speakers with a v30, creamback, or greenback? Or should I try to fix the 70 80 harshness with eq? Any modifications required to get other speakers to fit?
 
To add to my last post, That graininess I speak of is almost a good thing when it comes to lower gain tones. There's a lot of 'quack' in the lower gain amps with the open back that I've never experienced with frfr, in a good way. But it's too much in high gain. Maybe the problem isnt the 70 80, and it's more of just how a high gain amp sounds through an open back. Maybe both.
 
You can look at frequency response charts on the celestion web site for what its worth. Yeh, the open back is not the best thing for hi gain, but that is mostly in the lo end...I think. I think any of the speakers you mentioned are an improvement over the 70/80, especially for hi gain. I always like the v30 in my marshall, it works with lots of amps, but I also really like the green back specifically with marshall tones. The green back is good with the real amp because of its tone and also because it is less efficient. As an experiment, try to close the back of the amp up. Maybe a piece of fairly stiff card board taped or bungeed could give some idea if closing the back up would be a worth while mod?
 
guitarmike said:
You can look at frequency response charts on the celestion web site for what its worth. Yeh, the open back is not the best thing for hi gain, but that is mostly in the lo end...I think. I think any of the speakers you mentioned are an improvement over the 70/80, especially for hi gain. I always like the v30 in my marshall, it works with lots of amps, but I also really like the green back specifically with marshall tones. The green back is good with the real amp because of its tone and also because it is less efficient. As an experiment, try to close the back of the amp up. Maybe a piece of fairly stiff card board taped or bungeed could give some idea if closing the back up would be a worth while mod?
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Good idea with the quick closed back test, I'll have to try that. I have some plywood I could cut to fit to give it a shot too.

I've really liked the creambacks in the online shootouts I've heard. I think I'd buy one if I found one for about 100 or so.
 
Remember that just closing off an open back cabinet doesn't always lead to an ideal closed back cab. There are variables such as the volume of the cabinet that come into play, and that will also depend to some degree on the speaker.

A good closed back 1x12 cab is going to be designed from the ground up for a specific speaker, and a specific physical volume.
 
True. I don't have enough experience to know the difference at this point, though :) Maybe I'll just shove the speaker against the wall so it acts like a closed back! lol. Remember I'm not micing it or using it as my main speaker for small gigs - I'm only using it as a monitor on stage, so perfection isn't necessary at this point.

I have a Creamback enroute as we speak :)
 
Generally speaking a closed cabinet seems to tighten up the bottom and I believe it is generally considered better for hi gain. I believe that tightness comes mostly from the fact that there is no sound coming from the back of the cabinet. In any event, there are a thousand different designs out there today and you can find some one who will swear there's is best. If it don't cost nothing it don't hurt to test it out. Keep in mind that the axe provides you with a great deal of power to control stuff like this. You wont know till you try. Mine is also used primarily as a stage monitor and something else to keep in mind is that these things are small and low. I have to tilt mine up or it pretty much blows right past me. Some fender amp tilt back legs will be my next expenditure...about $40.
Here's a short article I found that generally represents my understanding. http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyl...ker-Cabinets-Influence-Your-Guitar-Sound.aspx
 
Cool article. I love both open and closed backs for different genres which is why I'd like to make the PE60 convertible between open and closed.

I know there will be a lot of problems relating to it not being designed that way, etc. But like the article suggested, I think open or closed and speaker selection is a major factor, and if that gets me 90% of the way there for stage use, I'll be happy.

Right now the seventy 80 speaker open back PE60 is unusable for mid heavy amps like a 5150 or IIC+ is so stuffy it's ridiculous. So I think the creamback will help a lot. I can't wait for it to get here lol
 
Well I installed the Celestion creamback and it sounds worlds better than the 70 80. The fizz I got with the 70 80 is gone (the fizz was there without cab sims, it was gone with siMs on but it didn't sound good even with EQing).

I'm very satisfied with the creamback. Of course I lose the ability to use IRs. But I wasn't much for trying a million IR anyway. This works for me.
 
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