Axe II Wait List: Why not bump Store Retail to $4000 and begin the List?

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smilefan

smilefan

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Obviously, $2599 is not working as a Store purchase deterrent.
Those who have talked to Fractal either directly or over the phone
have relayed that they really intend to get the units out to everyone.

So if Fractal is serious about using the now-theoretical Wait List as the
true sales procedure, why not bump up the Axe II Store Retail price to
a true deterrent level ($3999 ?) and begin the List?
 
Would you rather have never had the Yahoo store option?
Would you have preferred Cliff have 1000+ units ready for launch day and waited another 6-12mos?
If there was a list only would you prefer their to be a mandatory $500 deposit?

A small operation like Cliff needs to have income coming in all the time to be able to buy more of the "raw materials" (chassis, boards etc.) and to pay himself and his employees to keep things moving along. It's not perfect, but I'm glad we aren't dealing with Microsoft on this one.
 
The people who have talked to Fractal said that they meant the present List
of $2599 as a deterrent only. If that's true, and its not working at its present
level, simply readjust it. A level like $3999 would stop store purchases cold.
 
rUsirius said:
Would you rather have never had the Yahoo store option?
Would you have preferred Cliff have 1000+ units ready for launch day and waited another 6-12mos?
If there was a list only would you prefer their to be a mandatory $500 deposit?

A small operation like Cliff needs to have income coming in all the time to be able to buy more of the "raw materials" (chassis, boards etc.) and to pay himself and his employees to keep things moving along. It's not perfect, but I'm glad we aren't dealing with Microsoft on this one.
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I don't get your post at all. If Fractal wants to employ the Wait List method that Cliff posted,
and the only way to administer it is to create a deterrent List price, then adjust the retail $ amount
to effective deterrent level and proceed with the List.

How would that stop the revenue stream?

It wouldn't. They could release the same amount of daily coupons to people on the List as units they
produce that day. It would send the clearest possible message to all, that the Wait List is how
we will proceed from here on in. A fair and simple solution to the present madness, I think.
 
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Cliff has stated he isn't comfortable taking money up front. Among other factors, enogh people complain bitterly and make wild accusations about motives and character as it is Could you imagine the kind of vitriol that would be flung around if people had a good chunk of money invested in procuring one, as well??

I think that predicates how the wait list functions. Peoples ambitions are bigger than their wallets. Do you really think that all 200+ people on the wait list could buy this instant if presented the opportunity? How long does fractal have to wait for those people to actually pony up once they've "guaranteed" them a unit? It would be a method that creates a lot of dead inventory for potentially long periods of time.

This way, they don't take money up front. There is no hanging on to inventory for the diffident or over ambitious. They take care of the customers who really have to have it right away. And they generate extra revenue that can stem the inevitable sluggishness of servicing the wait list.

Actually seems like a clever system. If fractal had the infrastructure and manpower in place to communicate waiting placement and status, etc... that would make it more tolerable to the wait listers, I admit. That reality more than anything else led me to order mine at the premium.
 
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You're right, $3999 certainly would put a dent in Yahoo Store sales, but with Cliff's current method he is maximizing his potential profits for the given time. Clearly the market is bearing $2599 and the list is still growing. He may have lost a few potential buyers because of the yet to be served wait list, but he's gonna be saturated with this current demand for months to come.

smilefan, if you would have gotten in last week through the Yahoo store at $2199 you wouldn't have started this thread. (someone else would have! :) )

And, as it has been stated about Cliff not being a fan of taking deposits or money up front- I personally think that is a mistake. Many other small/boutique outfits do this and it works just fine. Most boutique builders (amps, guitars, effects etc) will gladly issue a refund if you don't want to wait.
 
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rUsirius said:
You're right, $3999 certainly would put a dent in Yahoo Store sales, but with Cliff's current method he is maximizing his potential profits for the given time. Clearly the market is bearing $2599 and the list is still growing. He may have lost a few potential buyers because of the yet to be served wait list, but he's gonna be saturated with this current demand for months to come.

smilefan, if you would have gotten in last week through the Yahoo store at $2199 you wouldn't have started this thread. (someone else would have! :) )
Click to expand...

Agreed. $2599 is probably what they figured the sweet spot was to maximize what people will spend for having it now vs waiting for the cheaper price on the wait list. Smart pricing for profit although it makes lotsa' folks antsy. If I didn't already have an ultra I'd spend the extra $ to nab a II. Having an ultra makes it a lot easier to sit by and see if there are any growing pains on the II.
 
rUsirius said:
You're right, $3999 certainly would put a dent in Yahoo Store sales, but with Cliff's current method he is maximizing his potential profits for the given time. Clearly the market is bearing $2599 and the list is still growing. He may have lost a few potential buyers because of the yet to be served wait list, but he's gonna be saturated with this current demand for months to come.

smilefan, if you would have gotten in last week through the Yahoo store at $2199 you wouldn't have started this thread. (someone else would have! :) )

And, as it has been stated about Cliff not being a fan of taking deposits or money up front- I personally think that is a mistake. Many other small/boutique outfits do this and it works just fine. Most boutique builders (amps, guitars, effects etc) will gladly issue a refund if you don't want to wait.
Click to expand...

Do you not agree that this would allow the Wait List that Cliff started Sunday to begin in earnest?
If its really about the money, and the move to $2599 was profit, and not deterrent, motivated, then
it makes sense to leave things as they are now. But Fractal has specifically told Board Members
that $2599 was NOT profit motivated. (Am I just being naive?)
 
smilefan said:
So if Fractal is serious about using the now-theoretical Wait List as the
true sales procedure, why not bump up the Axe II Store Retail price to
a true deterrent level ($3999 ?) and begin the List?
Click to expand...

The guy is still in business to make money.
Come on. This is not your business, nor your wallet.

If you had the opportunity to make $400 more per sale on a high ticket item because people are willing to spend it, wouldn't you do it?
Cliff spend the last 3 years working on this machine. Let him profit a little.
The reason $2599 is not working as a purchase deterrent is because the product is too good.

No one in his good senses will prevent people from buying his product with an over-inflated price.
$4k makes no sense.

IMHO.
 
jerrysteel said:
The guy is still in business to make money.
Come on. This is not your business, nor your wallet.

If you had the opportunity to make $400 more per sale on a high ticket item because people are willing to spend it, wouldn't you do it?
Cliff spend the last 3 years working on this machine. Let him profit a little.
The reason $2599 is not working as a purchase deterrent is because the product is too good.

No one in his good senses will prevent people from buying his product with an over-inflated price.
$4k makes no sense.

IMHO.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. I would have started the price at 3K, then when that dried up, 2.5K, etc. down the
line, until I had milked every price point the same way they do in consumer electronics.

I posted this because of what Fractal representatives themselves told Board Members.
We want to get the product to everyone as fast as possible. $2599 was intended as a
deterrent, not a profit device. Cliff intends the use of a Wait List.

So this method will make that happen in 48 hours or less, no?
It requires no action on Fractal's part but to repost the Retail store price,
and then begin to administer the Wait List, which Cliff has already instituted.
 
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smilefan said:
Do you not agree that this would allow the Wait List that Cliff started Sunday to begin in earnest?
If its really about the money, and the move to $2599 was profit, and not deterrent, motivated, then
it makes sense to leave things as they are now. But Fractal has specifically told Board Members
that $2599 was NOT profit motivated. (Am I just being naive?)
Click to expand...

Points understood and noted, but let's just cut to the chase- a deterrent would be to just take the Axe-Fx II out of the store (as well as the now discontinued Ultra).
Here's what would happen though- people would be super pi$$ed that they didn't wake up at 8am this past Sunday morning and scope the forum to see that a list was being started. I recall mention of a user subscribed email newsletter that was "supposed" to keep us updated about the availability and launch of the Axe-Fx II. Never happened.
What should have been done is this email goes out at say midnight EDT the day before launch and is simultaneously broadcast on the forum and the main website. The newsletter mentions price and buying options/details. A list starts, $250 deposit, 8-10 units a day will be released to the Yahoo store at a predetermined same time every business day for those "feeling lucky" etc..
 
If the point of the waiting list was to facilitate the matter of actually getting an Axe II, then yes, the price should have been higher. In fact, when you think of it, if the price was $10,000 but you got an 80% off coupon, people would actually be able to use the coupon without having to worry about someone who's willing to spend $400 more to get one. Still my heart wants to believe Cliff was trying to do the right thing with the waiting list. All in all, I think the situation jumped the shark with the "Indignant Whiners" post. I wish I hadn't read that and I'd bet Cliff would like to be able to take that back. But the lack of information is what really makes the situation so frustrating for me personally. I'm not a pro and don't rely on having an Axe II. But I'd love to have one. I've got the money ear-marked for it but I just don't know how long I'll be able to let it burn a hole in my pocket.

Dave
 
If I were cliff I'd definitely want the extra $400. Heck, I would have brought it up $500. I bet it would have sold there too. Once that slowed down I'd bring it down to $400, haha.
 
It is clear that the fist waiting list is full. The only right thing to do now in this situation would be to raise the current retail price by $150. Then establish a new waiting list for $300 off the retail price coupons. Then have this list supersede the former waiting list. It's a win/ win for everybody.

It's brilliant. I know there are a few of you out there that would be willing to pay a little extra just to jump ahead of the current waiting list, but not so much as to pay full retail.
 
As much as I do not enjoy saying this lol, I think the bottom line regarding all of this is, we just have to wait. I'd like info just as much as anyone, but we've seen that no matter how bad we want info, it isn't going to come our way if FAS doesn't want it to. Plain and simple. Obviously things are proceeding and I'm sure Cliff will inform us when the wait list will begin being serviced (I'm sure no one wants to avoid another "it will begin selling on day X" fiasco more than he does). The availability is what it is, the price is what it is, the wait time will be what it will be (Cliff is overseeing that so it is going to run it's course the way he wants it to). Let's be realistic here, Cliff wants to sell them to us. He is not being mean-spirited or spiteful, he's just dealing with his business. We have to deal as well...it is what it is. Last thing I wanna do is piss off FAS because despite what some may call a very unfortunate handling of a product release, Cliff has been really cool over the years we've been plucking away with our Ultras/ Standards (constant updates, input, suggestions, tech advice). I'll take the good with the bad and deal (but I want my Axe II too lol :D ).
 
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lilbman said:
It is clear that the fist waiting list is full. The only right thing to do now in this situation would be to raise the current retail price by $150. Then establish a new waiting list for $300 off the retail price coupons. Then have this list supersede the former waiting list. It's a win/ win for everybody.

It's brilliant. I know there are a few of you out there that would be willing to pay a little extra just to jump ahead of the current waiting list, but not so much as to pay full retail.
Click to expand...

Have you ever run a business? That's way too much work. It's not about working hard but smart. Most people unfortunately never figure that out.
 
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