Axe II into Mesa Express effects return

S

SmartAxe

Member
I have an older Express 5:50 2x12 combo that I love. For those not familiar, the amp has two channels - each with a "master" volume that feeds the effects loop. If you run a modeler into the effects return of the amp, bypassing the preamp, you also bypass the master volume. Put a different way, the modeler would need to be in charge of the amp master volume.

Here's the kicker: I'm looking to buy an Axe-Fx II but I've heard that the output knob gives very little difference in output volume - that the output knob at max is essentially unity gain. Will I be able to get a decent output volume from the amp given the reportedly smaller dynamic range of the Axe's output knob? Or will I have to put some kind of line preamp in between the two?

Anyone else in this situation? I'm excited to place my order for an Axe-II but I'm wondering if my current amp rig will handle it properly. The amp works fine with other modelers into the return, but those have outputs that give a good amount of volume boost or cut.
 
Unity gain is applicable for 4CM.

The Axe-Fx has a max of +20 dBu output.
 
Hmm, the express manual says to adjust effects units to unity gain.

The effects loop is between the preamp and power amp according to the manual. You are saying there is no master knob controlling the power amp level like most Mesa amps?
 
yek said:
Unity gain is applicable for 4CM.

The Axe-Fx has a max of +20 dBu output.
Click to expand...

So, are you saying that just going from Output 2 into the return of the Mesa that I should be able to get quite a bit of volume? That's encouraging!

chrisallen8888 said:
Hmm, the express manual says to adjust effects units to unity gain.

The effects loop is between the preamp and power amp according to the manual. You are saying there is no master knob controlling the power amp level like most Mesa amps?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Express amps' master is disabled when you run into the return directly. The "master" volume knobs on each channel have no effect because they are in the chain BEFORE the effects send on the amp. The part of the manual you are referring to is talking about what to do to achieve unity gain within the effects loop.

Thanks for the responses! I'm hoping Yek's is correct!
 
I am in a similar situation as you. I have a Mesa F30 1x12 combo that I still use at gigs until my mesa 20/20 power amp arrives. The way to do it (at least in the F30) is to pit a patch cable into the effects send, but leave the other end of the patch cable UNCONNECTED. So you are sending the preamp into nowhere. Then plug the axe 2 into the effects return, output knob maxed out. Now your effects mix knob acts as your master volume. Keep in mind I have an F30 not the express series. The mix knob only goes to %90 so its not a completely perfect setup but will get you through a gig.
You do not need the axe to test this. Simply do everything I described before and plug your guitar into the effects return. If you can control the master volume with the effects mix knob, then you will be able to control it once you have the Axe.

Whew that was a long post. Hope this helps.
 
Guitarist9891 said:
The way to do it (at least in the F30) is to pit a patch cable into the effects send, but leave the other end of the patch cable UNCONNECTED. So you are sending the preamp into nowhere. Then plug the axe 2 into the effects return, output knob maxed out. Now your effects mix knob acts as your master volume. Keep in mind I have an F30 not the express series.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. The difference between the two is that the Express series (I think the F30's replacement) has a series loop.
 
Oh I guess than you dont have the effects mix knob then. If it has a series loop I am surprised that the master volume is wired before the effecrs loop. I had a Marshall JCM900 head and if I plugged into the series loop on that amp, my presence and master volume still worked. Either way the best bet is to get a dedicated power amp, or an amp that has the master volume before the loop. Good luck!
 
There's some serious juice required to push the power stages in my tube amps. The AxeFx is not able to deliver that much. However, if your amp is fine with other modelers, I'm sure the AxeFx is fine too. Max output from the AxeFx is +20dBU...you, may check what those other modelers are capable of.
 
yek said:
Unity gain is applicable for 4CM.

The Axe-Fx has a max of +20 dBu output.
Click to expand...

From the manual, it says: "To operate with unity gain, simply set the Output Level knobs to maximum. If you then route shunts from the input to the output you will get out exactly what you put in."

So, that doesn't sound like it's a +20 dBu boost in volume. Am I reading that wrong? Is the rest of the gain coming from the amp block?
 
SmartAxe said:
If you then route shunts from the input to the output you will get out exactly what you put in.
Click to expand...

shunts only = unity gain.

so when you add a block then adjust its level above 0 dB, you are definitely adding volume to the output. the amp block can add a lot of output volume as well, even with level settings under 0 dB.
 
Got it, now it all makes sense.

Given how my amp works and that unity gain is apparently so easy to achieve with the II, I kinda have this idea about treating the Axe like a big pedalboard straight into the clean section of my amp. I realize that might not be typical, but I can imagine running even preamps and stomps into the clean channel, set flat, from the Axe's output 2, and have the main outs of the Axe running a preamp akin to the Mesa's and a custom IR shot from my Mesa...then run that main out to the board. Kinda like this:

axe.jpg

The FX Loop send will go to the Mesa's front and the main out to the board. That way I can still control my stage volume with my amp. I like my cab. Make sense?
 
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