AXE FX vs. Tube Amp Question

S

SEA

Member
I have a project studio and have a Roland VG99. I don't have a tube amp and was looking to get one and so I could really AB them both and have the best of both worlds right?

So I decided to get a Mesa Boogie Mark V head with a cab but before I pulled the trigger I kept thinking about taking a closer look into the AXE FX Ultra.

Well I posted a thread on the Boogie Board forum asking about "Recording Digital Modeling vs. Tube Amp"

Here's the thread http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42765

The first response was "There is a big difference! Now, with an AXE FX the difference is much less, but with just about any other modeler you'll be able to tell a difference."

So I thought I better take a closer look into the AXE FX.

I also found a review on Harmony Central.
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... xe-FX/10/1

The one guy said "The Mesa Boogie amp models in the AXE-FX are fantastic, just as good as my real tube Mesa amp, and more responsive typically. Santana sounds can be "exactly" created."

Hmmm... now I'm leaning on the AXE FX!!!! (LOL!).

The Mark V will cost 2K and not included the cab. I was also listening to some AB's with the AXE FX on this youtube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJvcs8Gfog

So I guess my question is "How many tube amp users are satisfied with the AXE FX vs. their tube amp and analog pedals?"

To me, it's all about the end result (especially since I'm doing 100% recording now and not gigging out). When I do gig out, I can run the AXE FX through my PA and of course that will sounds great vs drag around amps and cabs.

Any thoughts from the guys who use both would be awesome.

Jamie
 
SEA said:
I have a project studio and have a Roland VG99. I don't have a tube amp and was looking to get one and so I could really AB them both and have the best of both worlds right?

So I decided to get a Mesa Boogie Mark V head with a cab but before I pulled the trigger I kept thinking about taking a closer look into the AXE FX Ultra.

Well I posted a thread on the Boogie Board forum asking about "Recording Digital Modeling vs. Tube Amp"

Here's the thread http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42765

The first response was "There is a big difference! Now, with an AXE FX the difference is much less, but with just about any other modeler you'll be able to tell a difference."

So I thought I better take a closer look into the AXE FX.

I also found a review on Harmony Central.
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... xe-FX/10/1

The one guy said "The Mesa Boogie amp models in the AXE-FX are fantastic, just as good as my real tube Mesa amp, and more responsive typically. Santana sounds can be "exactly" created."

Hmmm... now I'm leaning on the AXE FX!!!! (LOL!).

The Mark V will cost 2K and not included the cab. I was also listening to some AB's with the AXE FX on this youtube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJvcs8Gfog

So I guess my question is "How many tube amp users are satisfied with the AXE FX vs. their tube amp and analog pedals?"

To me, it's all about the end result (especially since I'm doing 100% recording now and not gigging out). When I do gig out, I can run the AXE FX through my PA and of course that will sounds great vs drag around amps and cabs.

Any thoughts from the guys who use both would be awesome.

Jamie
Click to expand...

I'd like to point out that the MkV will actually cost you more than 2G's. You need the head. A cabinet. A nice mic (or several mics) to capture it. Possible a nice preamp depending on how the ones in the VG sound. Possibly a power soak if you want to record high gain tones at power tube compressing volumes and not annoy your neighbours. Plus the physical space to actually record a guitar amp in.

The Axe-Fx you'll plug straight into your recorder and you're done. Record away.

I don't own a Mark-series Mesa so I can't comment on just how closely they line. They sound fabulous to me. The Recto Orange is a great clone of my old Recto-Verb. Poke around the recording section though. There are a lot of Mk series clips available in there. From Santana through Petrucci type stuff.

:ugeek:
 
SEA said:
So I guess my question is "How many tube amp users are satisfied with the AXE FX vs. their tube amp and analog pedals?"
Click to expand...

I am actually MORE satisfied with my Axe than with my Marshalls. I have some absolutely KILLER tone going on for the hard rock and hair metal genre. Even our manager noted at last night's rehearsal that "THAT is the kind of crunch I wanted to hear".
 
Thanks guys for your reply.

Oh yeah... I know it will cost more than just the head :D

Also... I have mics for my studio so that's cool.

I WAS thinking about getting 2 combo amps like a Peavey Windsor and something else, then running the AXE FX stereo through them. However, it would be probably more practical for live just do run it through a PA and also direct for recording.
 
SEA,

It really does work best direct. I abandoned my 412 cab and went FRFR. Two EV 15" PA cabs driven by a Carvin solid state poweramp. I never would have believed it would sound or feel this good. Go native. You'll like it.
 
The Axe-FX amp and cab models replaced all of my ADA preamps, Mesa Preamps, and ADA cab sims (including venerated Ampulator) and I've never been happier with my tone. I have no regrets whatsoever.
 
My view is that you can get there both ways.
If you like it simple, buy a nice tube amp that you like and throw a decent mic in front of it into a decent mic preamp and make some recordings.
If you don't mind tweaking through menus, experimenting and adjusting maybe hundreds of parameters then go with an axe-fx. Honestly for some people they just don't enjoy doing this.
I will say that you can acheive many more sounds with the Axe-fx than you could with just one amp, but it does take some time and effort.
It all depends on how you feel about it I guess. There have been thousands of decent guitar recordings made before the Axe-fx was even dreamed of.
 
daveg62 said:
My view is that you can get there both ways.
If you like it simple, buy a nice tube amp that you like and throw a decent mic in front of it into a decent mic preamp and make some recordings.
If you don't mind tweaking through menus, experimenting and adjusting maybe hundreds of parameters then go with an axe-fx. Honestly for some people they just don't enjoy doing this.
I will say that you can acheive many more sounds with the Axe-fx than you could with just one amp, but it does take some time and effort.
It all depends on how you feel about it I guess. There have been thousands of decent guitar recordings made before the Axe-fx was even dreamed of.
Click to expand...
Very True!

I don't mind dialing in stuff. I have a Roland VG99 already. I was just looking to get something that would cover any thing I need vs buying 5 amps. Thus the Mesa Mark V was on the top of the list.

However I'm reading about one guy who had 10K in pedals alone (plus amps), plus works fulltime in the studio and gave it all up for the Axe-Fx Ultra.

So... WHY do I want an amp then? LOL!

And what about patches? I know people like to share in the community. Makes it nice when you get some help as well.

Jamie

P.S. I went to the Axechange dot net and it said "Sorry We're Closed" but had 2 zip files. Are these legit?
 
SEA said:
Any thoughts from the guys who use both would be awesome.
Click to expand...
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words...

Before:
DSC_0707.JPG


After:
DSC_0278.JPG


Here's the deal... at any point in time I've typically had half a dozen different amp heads in the studio for recording projects. And the majority of them have often been Mesas, based on the sheer versatility. Over time, though, they've been driving me crazy... it feels like I can never get the tones I want out of the Mark V and Roadster--feels like I spend more time tweaking than playing. The Mark V is particularly challenging because I could never get its MkIV mode to sound like my former Mark IV.

So I bought an Axe-FX Ultra, and so far, am really digging the tones I'm getting out of it. I think the Mark IV model on the Axe-FX sounds/feels more like a real Mark IV than the Mark V does. The Recto models are also quite good and actually bring a bit more aggression that I thought was lacking on the Roadster. Granted, this is based on jamming around... haven't really started recording the Axe-FX yet. But I can say good things about the amp sims and effects quality so far, and I expect to get more into the cab/mic sims soon.

--B
 
Owned 5 boogies and now have (only) one axe-fx standard ;)

Very happy home playing with the axe-fx I must say. The boogies are too loud for playing at my home when cranked (for good tube tone).
Needed attenuators and I usualy put them in my isolated closet with a microphone.

I really like boogies, they have a certain personality. But only when equiped with good tubes.
And the stock boogie tubes are not good imho. So you need good tubes.... often.

Also when you go gig with them you need roadies. Big ones. :lol:

greetz
 
mjongkamp said:
Owned 5 boogies and now have (only) one axe-fx standard ;)

Very happy home playing with the axe-fx I must say. The boogies are too loud for playing at my home when cranked (for good tube tone).
Needed attenuators and I usualy put them in my isolated closet with a microphone.

I really like boogies, they have a certain personality. But only when equiped with good tubes.
And the stock boogie tubes are not good imho. So you need good tubes.... often.

Also when you go gig with them you need roadies. Big ones. :lol:

greetz
Click to expand...


LOL!

All good points!

Thanks greetz! :)
 
The best thing for recording at home would be the Axe-VST Plugin - when ever available.

Second best is the AxeFx rack.

To record a tube amp at home is not this easy (loud, additional gear needed, ...).

To record a tube amp silently you need something like this (no need for a speaker at all):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00YTrdpnyTw

If you just like to play - hear the amp next to your - then nothing sounds close this this :D :
mkV2.jpg
 
Armin said:
The best thing for recording at home would be the Axe-VST Plugin - when ever available.

Second best is the AxeFx rack.

To record a tube amp at home is not this easy (loud, additional gear needed, ...).

To record a tube amp silently you need something like this (no need for a speaker at all):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00YTrdpnyTw

If you just like to play - hear the amp next to your - then nothing sounds close this this :D :
mkV2.jpg
Click to expand...

Mark V right?

Nice git! What is it?

Very cool!

Jamie
 
I have currently own an AxeFX Ultra AND a Mesa Mark V. Which one is the best is a very difficult question to answer...I think I like them both equally, knowing that both have pros and cons.

If you are after a very versatile solution that will allow you to play live, record direct, simple, convenient with a lot of excellent FX right in the same box, go with the Axe, no question about it. When I connect my Axe to the power section of my Mark V which is connected to a 2x12 recto cab, the sound is so close to the real thing than I sometime get confused if I go through the Axe or not.

But I V will stay for a simlpe reason, when I connect to it, it is dead simple, no tweak, no patch to save or modify, I have the real thing right there. I do not ask myself if I could tweak something else to get the sound even closer to the real thing, I know this is the real thing.

One thing to keep in mind in therms of cost comparison, the Axe will require a foot controller and a good power system if you want to get the max out of it. Don't expext to have the same tone and feel of a Mesa if you connect the Axe through cheap studio monitors with 6" woofers. I learned the hard way. You will need a good FRFR solution like Fratomic or Verve 12ma (or maybe a good power and cab) if you want the Axe to sound like the real thing. My Axe sound like the real thing when it is connected to a power amp and guitar cab. You can expext the same with a good FRFR system but not through headphones by exemple. It is just common sense here. So keep that in mind when calculating your budget.

In conclusion, I have both and will keep both, but if I had to sell one of the two, I think I would keep the Axe because the Axe can do almost every thing my amp does and more, but the amp can't, specially for recording purposes.



My 2 cents.
 
nicoroy123 said:
But I V will stay for a simlpe reason, when I connect to it, it is dead simple, no tweak, no patch to save or modify, I have the real thing right there. I do not ask myself if I could tweak something else to get the sound even closer to the real thing, I know this is the real thing.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, it's been the reverse for me... I swear I've spent more time tweaking my Mark V and Roadster to get the "right" tones out of them than I've spent tweaking the Axe-FX. I think it's something with the high interactivity in Mesa's tone controls... I went through similar periods of "excessive tweaking" with my Mark IV and Mark III in the past.

--B
 
Thanks for all your response guys! Sounds like the Axe Fx is a great tool for sure.

Let me ask a question.

On the VG forum I started a thread called "VG99 vs. Tube Amps, vs. Axe FX Question"

The moderator had a point regrding the VG99 that I wanted to know if the Axe Fx covers.

Here's what he said.

I think the difference a real tube amp can give you really is more in terms of play feel, ala setting it up right to the edge of breaking up so that harder picking breaks it up and a lighter touch gives you a cleaner sound. You can do this somewhat with velocity switching in the vg99, but its not the same.
Click to expand...

So I was wondering how it is with the Axe Fx vs. a Tube amp. Can you get the same touch and feel?

Jamie
 
The axe can be as touch-sensitive as you want it to be. I use plenty of patches that are on the edge of breakup which can be controlled by pick dynamics or guitar volume. That's ultimately what sold me and a lot of others here; it not only sounds like a real amp, it feels and responds like one.
 
I don't know, I got my Ultra 3-4 days ago and I just played 2 gigs in a row this weekend with it,
straight into PA, I even had no time to tweak patches properly (not sure if I needed anyways).
It works like a charm, can't remember when was the last gig I enjoyed that much like these 2.
Yeah, some of my band members told me once I got AxeFX that it looks cooler with amp and cab
on the stage...right....cooler and heavier, back breaker.
AxeFx is light, responses as a real tube amp (even better than some amps)
and you have like zillion of tone options that you can only dream of with one (or even 10) real amps, my 2 cents.

I still haven't used it in studio (will do that on Monday tho) but I did play it through my PC and Mac and then through
Alesis MKII monitors...love it, love it, love it.
And yeah, I am DONE with micing my cabs in studio, never again, no way, AxeFx straight into mixer or whatever and there you go.
Damn, I sooooo wish I bought it sooner,
now I have Mesa Triaxis, Mesa 2:90, TC G-Force, Engl Souvereign 2x12, Rocktron Prophesy and few cabs to sell. ;)


I never enjoy any peace of gear like this
 
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