Axe fx throuh Fender blackface vintage from 1966???

cheopsnet

cheopsnet

Inspired
Hi,

I am throwing out there an idea I have been thinking of for a while:

I love the sounds of the axe fx. I also love the clean sounds of old fender amps, such as old vibrolux reverb or deluxe reverb. So what would be the pros and cons of plugging an axe fx through one of these amps (obviously turning the amp simulation mode off).

My reasoning is that I would love to have the option of adding hi quality effects to an already hi quality amp. I read that those amps are pedal friendly and, judging from greg hilden youtube demo videos (check him out if you don't know him), a vintage vibrolux can sound great with some overdrive or delay added in front..

I play jazz, blues rock, those kind of things. What do you guys think? Could it hurt the amp? Would this pairing sound good for such styles of music? What would be the pros and cons, assuming playing/recording in a pro studio..

Thanks

Cheops
 
I hope somebody replies to your question, because I am thinking the same thing.... I'd love to hear it through a great older amp, like a Twin or a Bassman.
 
I'm assuming this amp has no fx loop so I'm not sure how well that would work. Purely in terms of fx quality, the AxeFx provides some of the highest quality fx out there. But without an fx loop or some kind of outboard loop I don't know how well it would integrate with your amp.

If you ever hoped to use the AxeFx with your Fender as a complete tone generator I think there are about a million better ways of doing that. The Fender's preamp, poweramp and speakers would add an enormous amount of coloration that would seriously hinder the AxeFx's ability to sound as it should. What you would need is transparent sound reproduction which is exactly what the Fender does NOT provide.

We all love vintage Fender amps, but honestly as the updates keep coming I'm not sure you couldn't get scary close if not DEAD ON accurate simulations of those tones with the AxeFx alone. I've heard Fender tones out of the AxeFx that have removed all doubt that this is possible.

Just my two cents of course but I think the AxeFx needs much more than what a vintage Fender can provide to make sure it's used to its fullest potential.
 
Give it a try. Start with axefx zero output level, then rise it till the volume is similar to direct guitar. Add fx to taste. :mrgreen:
 
Thanks for your replies

Has anybody has seen (youtube) or heard a good replication of a vintage blackface using the axe fx. I have to say the axe beats most amps I have heard in terms of crunch and distortion.

But I have yet to see the same for nice cleans without effects (only reverb allowed)...not talking about lush chorusy sounds (that I love) or u2-delay presets, but simply a simulation of a blackface vibrolux, twin or deluxe reverb..

I am considering the atomic cab, but am lost and don't get the sound difference between active and passive. Also I heard that these cab are good at low volumes, but for gig/concert volumes...any suggestion from atomic current or previous owners?

Thanks

Cheops
 
i've been using my axe fx in front of my port city pearl amp for the last 7 months and have had great results. just turn off the cab and power amp sims and make sure that you don't have an amp block in your signal chain on the axe fx. i used to use a huge pedalboard in front of my amp and the axe fx has replaced it (and actually sounds better). also, you will have to tweak the global eq and volume on the axe fx to match your direct signal. running an axe fx in front of your amp is no different than running pedals in front of your amp.
 
cheopsnet said:
...But I have yet to see the same for nice cleans without effects (only reverb allowed)...not talking about lush chorusy sounds (that I love) or u2-delay presets, but simply a simulation of a blackface vibrolux, twin or deluxe reverb...
Click to expand...
I've managed to get very close to the sound of my Bassman, which is a replica 54/55 5D6 circuit and arguably the best clean sound of any Fender ever. I based it off the 59 Bassman model, although the 59 doesn't have the clean headroom of the 5D6.
 
You can certainly use the Axe Fx in the way that you describe, as a virtual pedalboard in front of any tube amp.
I´ve done it many times with different amps, one being a Carr Rambler which is a great great BF style small (14-28 watt) 1x12" combo quite similar to the vintage Fenders you refer to.
If you want to take that approach, set up your amp (Fender or other) the way you want it to sound, then add the Axe Fx with all blocks bypassed, adjust the input as described in the manual for the strongest possible signal without clipping the input. Then adjust the output of the Axe so that the volume when you play is exactly the same whether you only play the amp or play the amp with the Axe (with a signal path of all shunts) in front of it.
Now you are ready to add boosts, overdrives, timebased efx and whatever you want in your signal path, just avoid amp and cab blocks.
It works really well, the Axe does take a little bit of the dynamics away compared to going direct to the amp input, but it takes away less that 99% of the pedalboards I´ve ever tried even though they were using good buffers and hi end boutique pedals.
So the approach that you ask about is not only doable, but also very flexible and sounds excelent.
I will add though, that if you don´t already own a vintage Fender amp that you wish to use in this way, try the Fender amp sims in the Axe first - you just might get very surpriced by how good the sounds are without the expense, weight, maintainence and reliability of a vintage Fender tube amp. Personally I really like the Brownface amp sim in the Axe, it sound just the way I think classic vintage Fender should sound, it takes drives and other efx beautifully, sits perfectly in a mix and records really well. Would be perfect for the type of music that you play, and you would be able to use the same patch with headphones, studio monitors and FRFR monitors.
Hope this answers you questions.
RB
 
Rocket Brother said:
just avoid amp and cab blocks.
Click to expand...

I have been into the clean channel of my Mesa 5:50 but I have the amps block in with the Sag turned off. It sounds great.
 
Jerry K. said:
[quote="Rocket Brother":3orizr4k] just avoid amp and cab blocks.
Click to expand...

I have been into the clean channel of my Mesa 5:50 but I have the amps block in with the Sag turned off. It sounds great.[/quote:3orizr4k]

I´ve used amp blocks in front of a tube combo with decent results (but no as good as with amp and cab blocks off), but the OP asked about using the Axe's efxs with the base tone of a BF 66. Hence my answer was to the use of the Axe as a virtual pedalboard.
Btw turning off Sag defeats the poweramp simulation in your amp block so what you have done is place the preamp circuit of said amp block in front of your Mesa 5:50, which equvalates to palcing a boost, drive or similar there.
RB
 
There really are no rules, with tweaking you should be able to use anything except for the cab block. The Guytron GT100 tube amp actually has a complete EL84 power amp section that runs in front of a 100w EL34 power section. The famous "American Woman" tone was made by a small "Herzog" amp slaved to another amp. Most tube based od/dist pedals are basically a tube preamp in a box. Try some amp blocks in front of your amp. I've made some cool tones running two amp blocks in series in the AxeFX. I don't care if it sounds exactly like a particular amp, as long as it sounds good.
 
tubetonez said:
There really are no rules, with tweaking you should be able to use anything except for the cab block. The Guytron GT100 tube amp actually has a complete EL84 power amp section that runs in front of a 100w EL34 power section. The famous "American Woman" tone was made by a small "Herzog" amp slaved to another amp. Most tube based od/dist pedals are basically a tube preamp in a box. Try some amp blocks in front of your amp. I've made some cool tones running two amp blocks in series in the AxeFX. I don't care if it sounds exactly like a particular amp, as long as it sounds good.
Click to expand...

So you say no rules..exept :D
Actually your rule doesn´t apply either as I've made patches with amp AND cab blocks before a tube combo, with good results - but that wasn´t what the OP asked for.
Still For the application the OP asked about I would (at least at first) try to avoid using the amp and cab blocks.
RB
 
I have a 1971 Vibrolux Reverb, silverface modded to blackface, amazing unit and my primary guitar amplification. Unfortunately, my experience of interfacing the axe-fx ultra was an immediate disappointment. Only way to connect it is via the front input. It did not help the axe-fx's indications of turning off cab and power amp simulations, and setting up the Vibrolux's eq to flat - it sounded awful. When I got the axe-fx the first thing I tried was to exactly replicate the sound of my vibrolux. It could not do it so I had to compromise. I have also tested the axe-fx with other amps, I remember an experience with a very nice Dr Z in which other serious vintage guitar and amp aficionados were eager to hear how the axe-fx performed. It was again a complete disappointment and the unit got a massive embarrassment. Probably the axe-fx would work fine on amps which have effect loops as the manual indicates, but in my experience definitely not in front of an amp.
 
I can't speak to how a vintage Fender would sound feeding the Axe-Fx signal into the front of the amp, but I currently use a Fender Super Sonic 100 head with an Axe-Fx Ultra in the loop and the sound is over the top. I have the legendary sounds of a real Showman(Twin), a real Bassman, and an awesome dirt channel with the unreal power of the Axe-Fx Ultra as an efx unit which is simply second to none.

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