Axe FX Power amp Watts help.

S

sebby123

Member
Im getting my axe-fx in soon and Im wondering what power amp to buy im stuck between the art sla-2 or Carvin DC1540L, Im going to run it in mono (bridged) into my port city 4x12 , My drummer plays very..very..very loud so of course i have to found a very loud power amp. I used to own a mesa boogie mark iv, and i would have to have the volume on 6-7 To keep up at practice. Im wondering if the art-sla 2 will keep up at 560 watts bridged, my bassist used to have a mark bass SS amp that was 500 watts and it couldnt keep up unless it was clipping, so im scared to art wont be enough. My argument against the carvin is it might be to much power as with everything audio i find there is a sweet spot in running things loudly ( Not pushing them into clipping) But higher volume settings, I have a feeling in be running the carvin very low at 1500 watts bridged.
 
i dont think you can have too many watts with a ss poweramp. and if there is a sweet spot on a ss solution you could just not run it bridged and only push 1 channel. i had a dcm1000 and i loved it but keep in mind even with a ss amp you will still need volume to push your speakers to your desired tone and that may be loud.

how did you get your volume with the mark, master or volume? that is gonna change what you mean by loud pretty significantly
 
fatoni said:
i dont think you can have too many watts with a ss poweramp. and if there is a sweet spot on a ss solution you could just not run it bridged and only push 1 channel. i had a dcm1000 and i loved it but keep in mind even with a ss amp you will still need volume to push your speakers to your desired tone and that may be loud.

how did you get your volume with the mark, master or volume? that is gonna change what you mean by loud pretty significantly
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I remember you from the boogie forum, I used to be on that forum alot, Anyways, Master 7-8 and channel volume 5-6
 
Several points I want to give here.

1. Power does not = volume. Just the same as some 100W valve amps are louder than others - some SS power amps have different max vol to others with the same rating.

2. The volume to power ration is 1:10. This means you have to multilply the power by 10 to get twice the volume. The 560W Art is only twice as loud as a 50W solid state amp (all other things equal). To double the vol of the art you'd need 5.5k. The Carvin at 1500W would be roughly 1/5 sa loud again as the art. Its around 5db difference. If you can try the Carvin, jurn the master down by 5 db and thats roughly where the art will be.

3. Different Cabs give different volumes with the4 same power - dependant on the speakers sensitivity. More efficient speaker = more volume.

4. The Max Volume from a cab is dependant on the cab NOT the Amp. The higher the volume the more the speakers move. Too much movement and the speakers will rip themselves appart.

5. The voice coils on speakers will only handle s set ammount of current (as by assosiation watts). Too much and the voice coils will burn out.

The upshot of this is that while many people will run higher power amps for greater headroom - they wont drive them too hard to protect the speakers. The higher Watts is for control and clean power NOT volume. Personally I think the SLA bridged should be more than sufficient. If you actually need more power than that your cabs speakers are in serious danger. You obviously CAN drive your cab loud enough as you have done with your messa, but I think you over estimating how much power you'll actually need. If you get the bigger amp, be VERY carefull how high you run it.

The obvious solution here is to teach your drummer to play properly - ie controlled - and not loud, or give him some cotton wool for his sticks ;)
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Several points I want to give here.

1. Power does not = volume. Just the same as some 100W valve amps are louder than others - some SS power amps have different max vol to others with the same rating.

2. The volume to power ration is 1:10. This means you have to multilply the power by 10 to get twice the volume. The 560W Art is only twice as loud as a 50W solid state amp (all other things equal). To double the vol of the art you'd need 5.5k. The Carvin at 1500W would be roughly 1/5 sa loud again as the art. Its around 5db difference. If you can try the Carvin, jurn the master down by 5 db and thats roughly where the art will be.

3. Different Cabs give different volumes with the4 same power - dependant on the speakers sensitivity. More efficient speaker = more volume.

4. The Max Volume from a cab is dependant on the cab NOT the Amp. The higher the volume the more the speakers move. Too much movement and the speakers will rip themselves appart.

5. The voice coils on speakers will only handle s set ammount of current (as by assosiation watts). Too much and the voice coils will burn out.

The upshot of this is that while many people will run higher power amps for greater headroom - they wont drive them too hard to protect the speakers. The higher Watts is for control and clean power NOT volume. Personally I think the SLA bridged should be more than sufficient. If you actually need more power than that your cabs speakers are in serious danger. You obviously CAN drive your cab loud enough as you have done with your messa, but I think you over estimating how much power you'll actually need. If you get the bigger amp, be VERY carefull how high you run it.

The obvious solution here is to teach your drummer to play properly - ie controlled - and not loud, or give him some cotton wool for his sticks ;)
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My drummer won 2nd place in the guitar center drumm off a couple of years ago and every professonal studio we go to the producers bow at his hits has a triggerd sound due to his consistent hits. The drummer plays fine but has a strong attack. Hes an incerdible drummer so thats not the problem. I do thank you for all the info though. I just dont want to end up getting the art and it not be loud enough. i wish there was a 800 watt SS power amp as i think that would be perfect. But cant find one in the under 500 price range. Ill buy the carvin if its loud enough not bridged ill return it and get the art.
 
sebby123 said:
I just dont want to end up getting the art and it not be loud enough. i wish there was a 800 watt SS power amp as i think that would be perfect. But cant find one in the under 500 price range. Ill buy the carvin if its loud enough not bridged ill return it and get the art.
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Please be careful about putting too much power through a guitar speaker. For instance, the speaker in my amp is rated for 30W. I realize there are many speakers out there that can handle more (EV makes a speaker that'll take 400W, giving you a total of 1600W in your 4x12 cab), but AFAIK it's much more common to see 4x12 cabs loaded with speakers that can handle less than 100W each. If you haven't bought the speakers for your cab yet, it probably won't cost much more to high power-handling speakers. But if you've got a cab with four 30W speakers in it, you'll probably need to spend an additional $300 - $600 on speakers to handle all the power you're planning on putting in there.
 
the real question is how many watts is the Port City cab rated for?with ported cabs you have to be careful.sealed cabs not so much.for example,let's take a 300 watt speaker and put it in a ported 3cubic foot cab tuned to 80hz.(hypothetical of course).you will not be able to get the full 300 watts out of the speaker because the ports will loosen the speaker movement, so to speak.Xmax is the limit the voice coil can move,beyond that and your in danger of a meltdown.so even with a 300 watt hypothetical speaker in said hypothetical cab,you might only be able to get 150watts out of it,before reaching Xmax.
in a sealed cab,the air inside the cab is rarefied from the outside of the cab.the difference in pressure holds the speaker in check.
i guess my point being,go by the spec. on the cab and be careful with the volume on the power amp.i know Carvin says in their manual to run full up (0db)on both channels and attenuate the signal at the source,but,i'm also a little foggy in this area.it would be so much easier if it had a level meter instead of those damn blinking lights. ;)
 
RDeraz said:
the real question is how many watts is the Port City cab rated for?with ported cabs you have to be careful.sealed cabs not so much.for example,let's take a 300 watt speaker and put it in a ported 3cubic foot cab tuned to 80hz.(hypothetical of course).you will not be able to get the full 300 watts out of the speaker because the ports will loosen the speaker movement, so to speak.Xmax is the limit the voice coil can move,beyond that and your in danger of a meltdown.so even with a 300 watt hypothetical speaker in said hypothetical cab,you might only be able to get 150watts out of it,before reaching Xmax.
in a sealed cab,the air inside the cab is rarefied from the outside of the cab.the difference in pressure holds the speaker in check.
i guess my point being,go by the spec. on the cab and be careful with the volume on the power amp.i know Carvin says in their manual to run full up (0db)on both channels and attenuate the signal at the source,but,i'm also a little foggy in this area.it would be so much easier if it had a level meter instead of those damn blinking lights. ;)
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Ah alright, Well ill see how it goes as the carvins coming in the mail. Ill be running it stereo soon so that wont be to much of a problem at 425 watts split.
 
The drummer stuff was a joke !!

My real ponts were that you cant just put megga watts into a speaker cab to get more volume. Many things make up the max volume you can generate from a given cab - and just adding more Watts could easily damage your speakers.

Please - run the Carvin Mono to start with whatever. 425 Wattsshould be too bad. An average 4x12 should handle 240W or so (based on V30s rated at 60W each) so backing the Carvin off just 3db will give some headroom while driving the speaker hard. If you find you need a little more, dont turn the Carvin up full as youll loose headroom - bridge it but turn it down. Raise the vol again until you get to the volume you were at in mono, then go higher SLOWLY, whilst carefully listening to you speakers (do this without anyone else playing). If you start to hear anything strange - buzzing, muddyness, low end not right - STOP, and back off a touch.

As I said you should be fine as your cab CAN keep up with your drummer (it did with the messa). Its very easy to overcook theWatts
 
paulmapp8306 said:
The drummer stuff was a joke !!

My real ponts were that you cant just put megga watts into a speaker cab to get more volume. Many things make up the max volume you can generate from a given cab - and just adding more Watts could easily damage your speakers.

Please - run the Carvin Mono to start with whatever. 425 Wattsshould be too bad. An average 4x12 should handle 240W or so (based on V30s rated at 60W each) so backing the Carvin off just 3db will give some headroom while driving the speaker hard. If you find you need a little more, dont turn the Carvin up full as youll loose headroom - bridge it but turn it down. Raise the vol again until you get to the volume you were at in mono, then go higher SLOWLY, whilst carefully listening to you speakers (do this without anyone else playing). If you start to hear anything strange - buzzing, muddyness, low end not right - STOP, and back off a touch.

As I said you should be fine as your cab CAN keep up with your drummer (it did with the messa). Its very easy to overcook theWatts
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Thanks for the advice! ill give that a try, Yea i know about the drummer stuff being a joke but i hear it alot have to defend his honor some how :D
 
it should do the trick. my dcm1000 did the trick. yours should easily be able to run like the mark at those levels. its good to see another mesa convert. i dont miss the mark at all. in fact ive found that i dont really use any mark amp sims at all. now i just gotta figure out the power/cab situation. the fratomic is nice but i think i miss the thump of the dcm/gflex combo
 
fatoni said:
it should do the trick. my dcm1000 did the trick. yours should easily be able to run like the mark at those levels. its good to see another mesa convert. i dont miss the mark at all. in fact ive found that i dont really use any mark amp sims at all. now i just gotta figure out the power/cab situation. the fratomic is nice but i think i miss the thump of the dcm/gflex combo
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Just got my axe fx :D But... cant use it tll the power amp comes in :cry:
 
I know you said you've already ordered the Carvin, but in case it didn't work out for whatever reason - our drummer hits pretty darn hard as well, and the SLA-2 keeps up just fine, with a bit of headroom left to spare. In fact, he hits so hard, I don't think there's a cymbal on the kit that's not currently cracked in at least one place (the HH is cracked in three places). Everything within a 10-foot radius of the drum kit is covered in wood chips as well. :lol:
 
mikeyen said:
I know you said you've already ordered the Carvin, but in case it didn't work out for whatever reason - our drummer hits pretty darn hard as well, and the SLA-2 keeps up just fine, with a bit of headroom left to spare. In fact, he hits so hard, I don't think there's a cymbal on the kit that's not currently cracked in at least one place (the HH is cracked in three places). Everything within a 10-foot radius of the drum kit is covered in wood chips as well. :lol:
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I think our drummers were seperated at birth, woodchips cymabl cracks and all! Actully i cancled the order on the carvin and bought the art-sla 2 from a forum member :D should come in soon!
 
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