Axe-Fx III vs The real deal tube amp

vguerriero said:
Yep, have run through the return on my amps, also have a Seymour Duncan PS700 as well as two PS200 (pedal board stereo setup) .....I like them hooked up as you describe, too.....again, I think I have every rig varient....also have a captor x setup....a bit schizo on a day to day basis as it relates to ampification....
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And when you use your axe with a poweramp and cab you don’t feel the same as with the head ? Or is it just mental ?
I have 2 config : A head/cab/pedal and axe for some extra fx, or axe 3 as a stand alone . I ve sold my loadbox, maybe will buy another one one day cause this solution is more than nice . So don’t worry, you are normal to have them all 😅. Yes… irs 🙄 . Once you finally found a combination that works, even the day after, don’t go back in the list for a while 🤣. Yes that’s too much. That’s why power up an amp and cab , jack and go ! Sometimes pfiou . Makes you breath .
 
Budda said:
I find one I like for the preset im building and dont touch it again. Life is too short anr i trust my judgement lol.
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I may only have about 300 cabs at my disposal with my II, but months ago I found one that worked with essentially every time I had, and I stuck with it. Occasionally I wonder if there's something else out there that would work "even better," but I'm very happy with the cab I have, so there's no need for me to change it, other than to frustrate myself with trying to find a golden needle in a haystack.

But I also am a nerd for the art of tone tweaking of course, and mess around with various settings all the time- it's what the Axe was built for. But it's easy to get lost and lose my way back to the tone I liked so much in the first place.
 
My name is mud said:
And when you use your axe with a poweramp and cab you don’t feel the same as with the head ? Or is it just mental ?
I have 2 config : A head/cab/pedal and axe for some extra fx, or axe 3 as a stand alone . I ve sold my loadbox, maybe will buy another one one day cause this solution is more than nice . So don’t worry, you are normal to have them all 😅. Yes… irs 🙄 . Once you finally found a combination that works, even the day after, don’t go back in the list for a while 🤣. Yes that’s too much. That’s why power up an amp and cab , jack and go ! Sometimes pfiou . Makes you breath .
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It's all mental! : )
 
Repartee41 said:
I may only have about 300 cabs at my disposal with my II, but months ago I found one that worked with essentially every time I had, and I stuck with it. Occasionally I wonder if there's something else out there that would work "even better," but I'm very happy with the cab I have, so there's no need for me to change it, other than to frustrate myself with trying to find a golden needle in a haystack.

But I also am a nerd for the art of tone tweaking of course, and mess around with various settings all the time- it's what the Axe was built for. But it's easy to get lost and lose my way back to the tone I liked so much in the first place.
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I generally make a preset when I get a new type of guitar (25.5" P90 w/ trem for example) and that's when I'll explore IR's some more. As updates roll out I've also un-edited my cab settings (no more lo/hi cuts, maybe fiddle with a couple parameters then leave it at "stock" etc).
 
knwlnd said:
At the risk of bothering people by banging on about my setup I think I should share my experience as it may help the OP.

With 25 years of semi-pro playing and audio engineering under my belt I was in a not too dissimilar spot, it left me with very “educated ears” compared to some.

Missing the feeling and sonic nuances of a tube amp and speaker cabinet making their magic together was one of my concerns when I was in the midst of switching to the Fractal Axe-Fx III.

I had a panic point when I had the Axe-Fx setup through Yamaha HS8’s, all my traditional guitar cabs in storage or packed ready to be shipped and found something missing.

Like the OP the recorded sound was great, monitored sound through the HS8’s was great but something was missing when I wasn’t listening from a critical engineering perspective or from the perspective of the consumer listener and just as a guitar player.

I rolled the dice on what it was and had Zilla make two custom 1x12 guitar cabs with the Celestion F12-X200 speakers in them and ordered a Matrix GT1000FX power amp.

For me that scratched the itch and I haven’t thought twice since.

I happily sit in the room and feel the cabs musically light up, resonate and fill the space when I play and for me there is nothing missing anymore.

The bottom line is, it’s as close to a guitar speaker in a guitar cab as I could get that still allows for the magic of IR’s and the Matrix lets the power amp modelling shine.

Maybe that’s the direction you need to head in.
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Curious to know if your cabs are Celestion spec, open back, sealed etc? I have a new F12 that is temporarily installed in an open back. Sounds great since I crammed a pillow into the back. Getting geared up to build spec cabs. Sounds more amp in room-ish to my ears.
 
There's a vibe with a tube amp. There's a vibe with the Axe into power-amp into cabs.

I haven't achieved the CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE level that some have. I've been playing/gigging, and recording for 30+ years.

I like the immediacy I get out of my Axe rig more than any tube amp rig I've played. Articulation, wallop, sustain, feedback character. This is totally dependent on your power amp IMO. You aint gonna get big-amp sounds out of a 12v Class D device. IMO

The interesting 'hair' on the sound may be the last nugget I havent achieved.
 
squealie said:
There's a vibe with a tube amp. There's a vibe with the Axe into power-amp into cabs.

I haven't achieved the CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE level that some have. I've been playing/gigging, and recording for 30+ years.

I like the immediacy I get out of my Axe rig more than any tube amp rig I've played. Articulation, wallop, sustain, feedback character. This is totally dependent on your power amp IMO. You aint gonna get big-amp sounds out of a 12v Class D device. IMO

The interesting 'hair' on the sound may be the last nugget I havent achieved.
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I love stereo sound and I've never really had any luck getting a great stereo sound with tube amps...maybe didn't spend the right amount of money. Let's say I like the EVH 5150III EL34 through 4x12 and at the same time want the awesome Axe FX blocks in the loop (e.g. EQ, chorus, delay, verb) how do you get there without buying 2 heads and 2 cabs $$$ and knocking down your walls with watts.
 
squealie said:
There's a vibe with a tube amp. There's a vibe with the Axe into power-amp into cabs.

I haven't achieved the CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE level that some have. I've been playing/gigging, and recording for 30+ years.

I like the immediacy I get out of my Axe rig more than any tube amp rig I've played. Articulation, wallop, sustain, feedback character. This is totally dependent on your power amp IMO. You aint gonna get big-amp sounds out of a 12v Class D device. IMO

The interesting 'hair' on the sound may be the last nugget I havent achieved.
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I have done some experimenting with my FM3 comparing it to my Marshall Plexi into a load box, then into my computer to use the same IR cab for both. I hook my guitar up to an AB switch that splits into the FM3 and the Marshall and when I switch between them (after some tweaks on FM3), I really do lose sight of which one is which- and I consider myself to have great ears and annoyingly picky about tone. That said though, through a power amp and cab, the difference is much more obvious and I would say it is a must to have a parametric eq block last in the chain before hitting your output to the power amp and cab. I had to boost 200Hz a few db and lower everything above 7kHz by a bit. Doing this has brought it much more into the ballpark of what I'm using to hearing than it was by not doing it.
 
musicianof1 said:
That said though, through a power amp and cab, the difference is much more obvious and I would say it is a must to have a parametric eq block last in the chain before hitting your output to the power amp and cab. I had to boost 200Hz a few db and lower everything above 7kHz by a bit. Doing this has brought it much more into the ballpark of what I'm using to hearing than it was by not doing it.
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Did you try just adjusting the speaker resonance related settings in the Amp block?

There's also a documented process for identifying the resonant frequency of your real cab.
 
musicianof1 said:
I did the eq on output 2 because I did not want to change what was coming out of output 1. Wouldn't changing the speaker resonance affect output 1 and 2?
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Assuming your Amp block is going there, yes.

Sounds like you're use the same Amp block both with a Cab block and without? In that case, it would seem like you've done what is needed.
 
karmar said:
it is all portable! Like you, I was hoping to get rid of tubes altogether, but I have reconciled myself with the fact that those SS poweramps will never sound like a real amp... unless.... UNLESS... Cliff could turn his genius towards creating a digital power amp that would work with the FXIII to give the same response as a tube power amp with a 100 watt output - but I think he already has his hands full or else he would have already done this....
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My Axe tones are way better than a tube amp in my recording environment, that said; my tube amps are so darn good sounding live.
Good thread here, lots of interesting stuff to read
 
musicianof1 said:
I have done some experimenting with my FM3 comparing it to my Marshall Plexi into a load box, then into my computer to use the same IR cab for both. I hook my guitar up to an AB switch that splits into the FM3 and the Marshall and when I switch between them (after some tweaks on FM3), I really do lose sight of which one is which- and I consider myself to have great ears and annoyingly picky about tone. That said though, through a power amp and cab, the difference is much more obvious and I would say it is a must to have a parametric eq block last in the chain before hitting your output to the power amp and cab. I had to boost 200Hz a few db and lower everything above 7kHz by a bit. Doing this has brought it much more into the ballpark of what I'm using to hearing than it was by not doing it.
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Running into a real cab, I had to first figure out the right speaker impedance curve setting through trial and error and comparing to my tube amps. Then my Axe-Fx 3 could be made to sound nearly identical to my real amps and those amps are not even modeled in the unit.
 
spikey said:
Do you have notes, a chart, or a graph for what you found?
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Certainly not! :D

I have a Bluetone 4x10 closed back cab with 10" Greenbacks and a 1x12 convertible back with Alnico Gold. The closest match to the 4x10 was the 4x10 Brit JTM45 impedance curve and the AC-20 DLX curve for the 1x12.

I tried using the parameters to fine tune them but those were very hard to evaluate by ear. So closest match is good enough for me. I'll try to post some IRs created from the cabs at some point.
 
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