Axe FX Accessibility

C

ChrisF

New Member
I would like to hear if AxeFX users think the unit could be successfully used by a blind person. For example, could a blind person memorize the actions needed to flick through the presets, make basic parameter adjustments etc. Obviously they would need a sighted person's assistance to get started, but could they then go on to operate the unit themselves? Before you dismiss the idea, bear in mind that it's surprising what can be done without needing to see. For example playing musical instruments at a very high level without needing to see where you're putting you're fingers (though sadly this isn't true in my case). Or being able to take apart a piano and put it back together again purely by touch. Sighted people don't need to see a PC keyboard to type accurately at blistering speed.
So what do you think? Could a blind person use the AxeFX? Because of the development of the LCD display, we've been a bit cut off from modern technology, but I really would like to own a good quality modeller such as the AxeFX.
Thanks. Any suggestions positive or negative would be appreciated.
 
That's a good question.
Also, couldn't the Axe-Edit software be used to facilitate such operations?
Sorry if I can't elaborate more as I do not own a Axe unit yet.
 
Maybe others feel differently, but unfortunately, I would say no. The menus for all the various actions are really too deep.

Like, you'd have to navigate through the grid and know where a given block is. I guess if you always put blocks in the same place, you could remember where your amp block is and where your delay block is and whatever. So that could work. But then within the amp block, there are a ton of different settings and menus. If you only had to remember those, maybe you could do it, but it's the same for the cab block, and the drive block, and the phaser block, etc. In the end, I just think it's more than can possibly be memorized. Plus, changing the settings with the scroll wheel, different settings change at different increments, I think. So you'd have a tough time knowing how much you're adjusting a given setting. There, I suppose, you could just use your ears though, so I guess that'd be okay.

On top of all that, when firmware updates happen, some settings and setting placement might change, which would make all the hard work of learning where everything is have to be redone.

Perhaps there's a better way than what I'm thinking of, but just off the top of my head, that's my immediate reaction.

Best of luck if you want to try to make it work. I hope you can, despite my thinking otherwise!
 
I think with the MFC foot controller set up, it would be pretty easy for a blind person to access all kinds of the Axe parameters.
 
Chris, I believe it'd be tricky. Certain things would be doable. I used to work on making our products accessible via MSAA, Jaws, etc. One of my testers at the time was blind and I was constantly amazed at what he was able to accomplish. A highly motivated individual can do much more than people sometimes realize.

Some of the problems you will encounter would be around state. The device maintains state in a variety of ways: what patch do you start with when you power up, what effective will be active when you hit "Edit" when you've switched patches, what parameter will be the default when you return to a page, etc. A number of UI elements wrap around so you can't discover a predictable point of departure.

You might be better off with the Axe-FX connected to a PC and run Jaws or whatever screen reader works for you. I know a lot of those guys are pretty damn clever at making apps accessible that were not designed for it. I don't know if Axe-Edit supports MSAA or not but it's pretty easy to implement it and all of the screen readers support it - and despite the limitations of MSAA, I believe it would actually be a pretty effective way to interpret the Axe-Edit user interface.
 
An accessible PC interface would be brilliant but unfortunately I know nothing about scripting. It's something that keeps cropping up, and I'd love to know more about it but it's a subject that is a bit daunting to get started with.
Paying for scripting from the JAWS people is super expensive I know that much.
I downloaded axe edit and it does need to be made accessible because in it's current state JAWS can't touch it at all.
Thanks for the responses. I had a feeling that navigating the menus by memory might be out of the question because of behaviours not being the same everytime, so thanks for confirming it. optimistic with regards to the PC interface though so I'll investigate some more. Cheers.
 
I just poked around with Axe-Edit and it would definitely take some work to make it accessible. There are two fundamental problems:

1) At least on Windows, the app uses all window-less controls. This pretty much means that Windows has no means to provide any default accessibility view. All you'll get is that there is a top-level window called "Axe-Edit". Each of the controls is built using a custom GUI library. I seem to recall Cliff saying he was using the Juice library. That is consistent with the window class names used under the covers. A quick tour of the Juice docs and forum indicates that accessibility is not a high priority. Based on a quick scan of the docs I think it'd be pretty straightforward to expose an MSAA layer for Juice components. I've not written any accessibility code since we released the UI Automation framework but MSAA is still fully supported and it's easier to implement. Pretty much all of the user interface elements in Axe-Edit would map to existing MSAA roles.

2) Keyboard support for Axe-Edit is weak. The basic building blocks around focus management seem to be there in Juice so it should be doable as well.

With MSAA and keyboard support, you would be able to use Jaws to get around in Axe-Edit. With a good enough MSAA implementation even Narrator would work OK.

Software related to music composition, recording, and musical instruments is seldom very accessible. Hopefully that's improving as these sorts of things have become pretty mainstream.
 
Hi ChrisF
My first thought upon reading your request is to use a computer, a plain text editor, programming presets and parameters using sysex commands and uploading it to the Axe.
I haven't thought this through thoroughly, but it would mean the hex coding is easily readable by speech software. And as long as the sysex code is right you'd have absolute control.
The biggest hurdle is learning Axe sysex and programming in hex format. Perhaps this is too big an obstacle. Plus sysex programming isn't supported by Fractal.
We now have a couple of good online Axe sysex references published by users. I believe there are a few Axe owners who do things this way.
 
That's actually not a bad idea at all, GfromHarpOn! Though I don't know how well it would work in practice, good thinking!
Here's the link to GM Arts's SysEx documentation, which would probably be the most clear and comprehensive single web page on the subject.
Axe-FX SysEx Messages

If you have someone to help make sense of that page and the Axe-Fx faster the first time, I'd bet the rest can be done on your own. The page layout is fairly simple, but it does use a lot of tables, sometimes with cells spanning multiple rows -- I don't know how well screen-readers handle that.
 
Reading through GM Arts's page, that will only get you as far as adjusting all of the parameters on all of the effect blocks.
You'll also need this SysEx page on the Axe-Fx Wiki...
Axe-Fx SysEx Documentation - Fractal Audio Systems Wiki
...to be able to place or remove effect blocks, connect those blocks together, name them, and attach and tweak modifiers, among other things.

I think saving may have to be done from the front panel. (I believe Axe-Edit is able save without a SysEx command or front panel interaction by directly dumping the full patch SysEx.)
 
The Axe-FX could be operated blind in a performance setting, provided you had a MIDI foot controller to change patches and CCs with. The front-panel dial is jumpy enough that you can't reliably predict what a one-click turn will do, unless you move slowly and deliberately.

Programming the beast would be much more complex, but doable. You could edit a specific block in the grid by going into layout mode, pressing Left and Up buttons enough times that you know you're in the upper left-hand block, then seek out a grid location from there. The big trick would be memorizing what blocks you've got in in what grid location, and memorizing the pages of parameters within each block. It wouldn't be too bad if you only have a handful of patches, as many folks do. If you have dozens of patches, you'd need to establish a standard layout for yourself, unless you've got a phenomenal memory. And there would be a good bit of careful feeling around the faceplate to get oriented without activating buttons or knobs unintentionally.

If you get a light-dependent friend to show you around the box and help you set it up, you could be very happy with it.
 
Has the format of the axefx patch dump been published anywhere?

People have been complaining about AxeEdit forever... maybe whatever the community comes up with to replace it could also work as a really good UI for blind people.
 
I appreciate the help, but this is all way over my head. Not only is power user PC stuff beyond my understanding, but even today's music tech stuff such as midi mapping etc isn't something I know much about because I've never been able to get near the software, and I haven't had an education in that area. I chose piano tuning and repairs over music tech (probably a mistake but I was thinking practically at the time).
I've just been left way behind. It's like anything, just reading about stuff isn't enough, you have to 'do' to get real knowledge, and I just don't seem to be able to get started. It's a very daunting jargonrich area, and I defeat myself before I even begin.
I'm very much at the 'twiddle the knob til the guitar sounds good' level. I truly appreciate your help, but I'm probably a lost cause.
 
Nope, you're not lost — you just haven't walked this particular trail yet.

The bottom line is that, with a little assistance from a sighted, gearhead-inclined friend, you could get this box set up sufficiently, and learn it well enough, to get a lot of enjoyment from it. That said, it's not the simplest processor out there, and even sighted folks who dive deeply into it have their challenging moments. You might want to consider starting with a simpler processor, such as a Line 6 POD, to see if this sort of tweaking is right for you.
 
Just posting this hear as it was me who asked this question 13 years ago. It took me another 10 years to finally take the plunge and get an Axe FX. And I still had no idea if I would be able to access it or not because if you search this topic, this, and another couple of similar threads, are the only things that seem to come up . I had to sell a lot of stuff to pay for it, so it wasn't an easy decision. I've had it a couple of years now, and doing a quick check, it seems there's still no reall information for blind guitar players on whether or not the axe fx is accessible. So I made a few audio walkthroughs about how accessible it is as long as you have a mac. The good news is, it's very accessible, the bad news for windows users is it's only the case on the mac.
I don't think I'm allowed to post links, but if anyone else ends up here like I did all those years ago, search 'How Accessible is the Axe FX III for Blind Guitar Players' on youtube, and hopefully you'll find it.
Cheers.
 
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