Axe FX 2 Mk 2 veritechc's journey

V

veritechc

Inspired
Hello all. I am a new Axe FX 2 Mark 2 owner. I will be using this tread to catalog my journey learning and playing with this new awesome piece of kit.

First off a little about me. I am "that guy" who just plays for fun. I do occasional gigs but I am no guitar virtuoso. But what I am is a gear head and a Information System Analyst by trade. I can program some great sounds and I know what I like.

I'm an ex 80's metal guy. A headbanger when I had hair and that was a long time ago. I still love the sound of hard guitars and soaring melodies. All songs should have a guitar solo by god and if you aren't making devil horns with your hands something is fundamentally wrong with you!

I started this musical journey by playing horns, all of them. In the 80's I switched to keyboards since the horn player never gets the chicks. Little did I know that the Keyboard player humps the gear with the bass play while the lead guitarist, lead singer and drummer have drinks with the ladies. Just like that I took up guitar.

Now, after quitting binge drinking and actually having a family I have settled down. Its amazing just how much guitar gear you can buy when you are not buying shots for the lasses. So now I own quite a bit of awesome gear. I have recently purchased a Line 6 dream rig consisting of a Variax JTM-89f from this point referred to as the girlfriend. That is because of the time I spend with her and my lack of substantive female companionship at the moment. I also have acquired "my precious" a Line 6 Helix and two Line 6 Stagesource L2t's. These all work fantastic together and I love how they sound.

So why in the hell did I get an Axe FX 2 you might ask?

@X-Mann damn you! lol

The truth is that I am no fan boy. I am just looking for whatever makes my limited abilities sound better and whatever inspires me to play and learn more. I have the Axe 2 to compare and contrast the two units strengths and weaknesses. I will hopefully impartially give out that information to you all and who know maybe help some of you along as many of you here ave helped me.

I will be posting updates, facts and questions along the way on this thread at the Gear Page (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/axe-fx-2-mk-2-veritechcs-journey.1644362/), The Line 6 Helix Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/line6helixusergroup/), the Fractal Audio Users Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/fractalaudio/) and the Fractal Forum (http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-2-mk-2-veritechcs-journey.107081/). You should visit and joining those groups and or forums as there are some wonderful helpful people there.

Thank you for your time. The first thoughts will be below.
 
Welcome aboard! I look forward to reading your posts! Some great information and knowledge in this forum.
 
So here is my first sharing of wisdom and questions.


I unboxed the Axe FX 2 Mark 2, updated it to Quantom 1.03, and quickly slid it into my rack (and a nice rack it is!) I plugged my Variax into my Helix (because the Helix powers the modeling on the the guitar) and quickly made a patch that sent a signal to the Axe FX via send one. I hooked the balanced outputs to my Foscusrite 18!20 interface and I was ready for sonic bliss.

Then why in the hell was the Axe FX, king of the processors squawking at me. Dear lord it sounded awful. I thought that perhaps I had not made that pass through preset on the Helix correctly so I plugged the Variax in direct still sounded like my last ex yelling at me. What the hell? So I hit the manual and found nothing. I did resets, the rain dance and threw the bones. Still sounded like Candice from Friends. Oh that sucker is going back right?

Wrong! Apparently you are able to turn off ALL cab sims in the Axe FX 2. Its the second parameter under Global! Dear lord manual. Perhaps leading with that would have been helpful!

Sidenote: if your multi-thousand dollar unit sounds like turtles humping you should be sure that the cab sims are on. (Fractal Audio if you want to add that to the manual I would be honored.)

Anyway after a slight detour she is singing like she should. So new Axe Owners be sure the Cab sim is on Globally. By the way that is a really cool parameter as it would make hooking the Axe up to an amp easy. But I don't use amps!

Now on to my questions:

1. Is there a list of effects for the Axe FX 2 that lists all the effects and what they were modeled from. For instance I want to recreate a Helix voice on the Axe FX to compare. Well the Helix has a Hedgehog D9 in my tone. In the Helix manual it clearly states that this was modeled from a MAXON® SD9 Sonic Distortion. What I can't find is a list of the equivalents for the Axe FX. Frankly I'm surprised its not easy to find.

Holy crap they are easy to find. For Overdrives they are on page 65-65 of the manual!

2. Has anyone who owns a Helix and a Axe FX figured out the equivalent amp parameters for the Helix to duplicate that amp in the Axe FX. The Helix has a Sag parameter. The Axe FX has Sag in three different places!

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
I would spend some time reading. Much of what you talk about here are pretty basic things in the Axe FX.

I would read through applicable parts and general knowledge can be found in these places among others (including the amp/drive/delay/whatever list that you found so hard to locate.)

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Axe-Fx_II_Wiki_Home

http://axefxtutorials.com/

Good luck. There is a bit of a learning curve you have in front of you, and we're here to help, but would also like to see some effort to research beforehand. EVERY question that you have has been answered somewhere on this and the above listed sites.

R
 
Sounds like the previous owner [it is 2nd hand, right?] had the Mk 2 set for use with a physical cabinet. I would reset your unit to factory default settings (UTILITY > RESET), download and install the factory presets... and start from there.
 
Welcome to "Team Fractal" V!!!!!

Sorry to add to your tone obsession, but I'm very eXcited to hear your thoughts on the Axe-Fx 2.

Oh & congrats on making the purchase of a lifetime too! ;)

Peace! X
 
So now that I have had a few hours with the Axe 2 Mark 2 I have some initial impressions.


First I'd like to detail my current setup:
12309999_10205279088522262_7324206556026973461_o.jpg


I made a “tone” on the Helix that takes the signal from my Variax guitar and routs it out of send 1 to the Axe FX front instrument port. This way I can power the Variax and use all of its modeling without the Helix coloring the sound at all. It has the added benefit of allowing me to switch tones on the Helix and use that separately. Makes a/b-ing them quick and painless.


For some reason I have yet to find the Axe just doesn't sound as brilliant as I expected. Since everyone has been raving about the Axe FX “right out of the box” being so much better than the Helix that is what I had expected. That is not my experience yet. I find them very similar in sound with the Helix being “brighter” overall. I believe that this is because of some setting I have not found yet and my inexperience with the Axe FX is showing. I should caveat this with the fact that I just dove right into the Axe FX and have only looked at the manual when absolutely necessary. This is the same path I have taken with the Helix. So I can test the ease of use of both.


The Axe Edit 3 editor is brilliant! With no real training I have make tones no problem. The grid pattern is very intuitive and easy to rearrange the blocks on. What I really like is that I can leave the unit in the rack and control just about everything from my PC. I have yet to turn a knob on the Axe with the exception of the I/O and Global pages for initial setup. By the way; I couldn’t find where Axe Edit controlled those pages. Once again I attribute this to my inexperience with the unit.


This brings me to something that I didn’t expect: bewilderment. Dear lord there are a truly daunting amount of amps, effects and more importantly parameters that you can change! I tried to recreate a Helix tone on the Axe and quickly found out I don’t know crap about the amps and pedals I used to create the tone. With the Axe there are so many choices that you can change to make your sound. Right now, as a new user its way too much to take in. Initially I’m giving ease of voice creation to the Helix just because the learning curve on the Axe is huge. Those of you who said the Helix was too much are so dang wrong. Compared to the array of things you can tweak the Helix looks “dumbed down”. Now I’m not saying this is bad. I know once I learn what all these parameters do I’ll be happy that I can change the tubes in various amps and adjust the power supply bias separate from the power amp. But right now I wish there was an “easy mode!”


I have only sampled a fraction on the ever expanding amount of amps in the Axe but I can tell you this. Many are subtle variations on each other. This is also not a bad thing but once again conquering the mountain of amps offered is not for the faint of heart. I find myself jumping to the back of the Axe manual to find out what an amp is modeled from way more than I ever did with the Helix. But that may be because the Axe has over 220 amps (I think the actual count is lower as the count each amp channel as a separate amp).


The firmware support has been coming hard and fast (damn that sounds dirty!) In the week I have owned the Axe FX quantum 1.03 & 1.04 have been released. That gave me 4 more amps and a couple of effects. Now that is awesome in anyone’s book. Backing up your sounds is quick and easy with the Fractal Bot. My only nitpicky wish list was that the Fractal software was all in one. I know you can launch the Fractal Bot from Axe Edit but that not quite the same.


Both the scenes and the x/y options are absolutely fantastic. It’s like you can make up 8 different tones within one preset. That is a quantum leap (see what I did there) ahead of all the other modelers.


Where the Axe FX is shining for me is what I would call ambient or intro voices. The auto swell is awesome as are the filters. Some of the factory patches in bank C make you want to make a new song! I’m still trying to pick apart the programing that went into some of those voices so I can see if they can be done on the Helix. My gut says probably not as the Helix sits.


That’s all for now. Today and tomorrow I think I will be delving into the Axe manual a bit more to learn what I don’t know. I’ll also be trying out the retarded amount of amps this unit has. Hell I don’t even know what most of them ARE let alone how they are supposed to sound. Fun times ahead!
 
This was my point about the manual. There is a truly daunting amount of information here, and if I can suggest some things:

-Reset the unit.
-Reinstall the presets.
-Start with ONE amp that sounds good to you at defaults and work your way through it...there is just too much to say I'm going to tackle 200+ amps in an afternoon.
-THE IR VERY LIKELY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR TONE. Experiment with the factory ones...especially the high-res.
-You can read the manual, but the sites I provided are a better resource for specific items. In many cases, the video's will clear up confusion about things faster and with more clarity when setting up.
-Get used to the front panel interface. When (and you WILL at some point in time) have to tweak or change something on the fly at a gig.
 
There is a lot to learning the Axe, especially with all of the advanced amp parameters. One thing to remember, though, is that you don't need to tweak those to get a good sound. You could ignore them and be fine. Try the Friedman BE with say, Factory cab 103 (4x12 Basketweave TV Mix). I've found that to be a solid combination for a good rock tone. Adjust like you would with a real amp. Like EP said, experiment with cab IRs, too. The Factory cabs are enough to keep you busy for awhile. I've had my XL+ since July, and have never felt like I was short on IRs. I'd love to buy some cab packs, but that's where I start getting overwhelmed.
 
veritechc said:
For some reason I have yet to find the Axe just doesn't sound as brilliant as I expected. Since everyone has been raving about the Axe FX “right out of the box” being so much better than the Helix that is what I had expected. That is not my experience yet. I find them very similar in sound with the Helix being “brighter” overall. I believe that this is because of some setting I have not found yet and my inexperience with the Axe FX is showing. I should caveat this with the fact that I just dove right into the Axe FX and have only looked at the manual when absolutely necessary. This is the same path I have taken with the Helix. So I can test the ease of use of both.
Click to expand...
I took the exact same path as you did w/ BOTH units, didn't read the manual at all & just started making tones & posting up the results via audio samples.

The Helix tones (& clips) shocked me at how long they took to get right & sound good. It took hours & sometimes days for me & I still didn't love them in the end. My expectations were that this was an EASY unit to get great tones very fast from......& while I really wanted that.....it didn't happen for me at all here. In fact most of the tones were NOT better than the Eleven Rack to me by far. In fairness, I got an early unit & only went through 2-firmware updates before returning it.

I had stayed away from Fractal in the past due to the thought process that it was a DEEP edit system & that it would be way too much for me to learn. I also thought that it would take days to understand & find great tones. I was wrong again here & found the core amp modeling tones very fast & very easy w/ the Quantum hardware. The tones right out of the gate were just stellar, detailed & rich like fine Corinthian leather. Again, I've posted these 1st day tones in audio samples & I can clearly hear the difference on the recordings.

In the room & through a pair of Friedman ASM-12's the results are even more shocking to me. The detail & quality of the Axe Fx ii XL+ amp models & cabs is on a totally different level, world & planet. The FX are not even close & the Fractal unit gives me a 100% Pro level stage & studio rig. ALL of this shocked me & now, after days of messing around, I'm getting even better results (New Video coming soon) & tones.

I find your statement VERY interesting/surprising, but again, it's whatever works for you in the end. I'd love to hear your best Helix clips & then some of the Axe Fx tones your getting now as well. Do you have a Soundcloud account? This really helps in the perspective of what were trying to describe in words here. lol

Somebody asked if you reset the unit that you purchased & maybe that could make a difference?

Either way, Rock on & good luck son!

Peace! X

PS - I do understand that these units are in totally different price brackets & I would never compare them as they are NOT apples to apples in my eyes at all. The disappointing thing to me on the Helix is that the end tones were not worth $1,400 at all.
 
Last edited:
Interesting comments V.

I was thinking to do something similar in own journey with the Axe-fx.

I did have the issue with the sounds been underwhelming but after I reset to factory settings and uploaded the quantum presets, the sounds I was getting from the first presets were outstanding, without any further editing or anything. And add, this was with just my headphones. I'm still having an issue connecting the axe-fx to my interface for recording and practice (that is another topic).

One thing, I'm using a Variax with the axe-fx as well. I am connecting to the Axe directly with an instrument cable and I'm using the variax modeling as I have the battery. Still, I see your point on connecting to the helix for powering, but why do you let uour guitar go through one more bridge to get to the axe? I may be wrong, but you could have your variax connected to the helix via the vdi cable for power and even control the modeling AND the 1/4 inch output from the Variax should be active and you could use it to send the signal to the axe, that way, your guitar (in theory) goes straight to the axe.

I do have a firehawk and I will try to do this to see if it works.

Good luck in your journey and I may add my own takes if they relate to yours or are relevant to the topics.

Omar
 
Thank you all for your advice. I have updated the unit to Quantum 1.04 but I'm not sure if I did a reset. I do know I added the quantum presets. But when I get home tonight I will re-do the entire update and reset again. I want to make sure the Axe is giving me her best!

I don't have a soundcloud account but I will soon. I'll post some simple samples as that is the kind of guitarist I am, lol.
 
Another aspect nobody has touched on, well I can't say that with 100% accuracy since I skim through some posts, is the use of different guitars. Are you using only the Variax in this journey? If so then my opinion is you are doing a disservice to yourself especially if you are scrolling through presets. I know the Variax (I have a JTV-59) models different guitars but I have found them to be less than stellar compared to the real deals.

Many presets sound better through Single Coils vs Humbuckers and vice versa depending on what and how they were created. Same goes with IR's. So if you have other choices I would use a variety of guitars to expand your experience.
 
Yo V, I'd love to see a picture of this actual set-up my brother if you have the time.

Did you update to the latest Axe software yet too?

How about some soundclips of you on both units & the tones you're getting?

Have you tried plugging a standard (non Variax) guitar straight into the Axe without Helix in the path at all?

Have you ever been in the cockpit of an airplane? :eek:

X
 
Last edited:
I am liking the Axe FX 2 better today because I have melted my friggin face off! Mikah912 from The Gear Page pointed me in the direction of Fremen's Quantum patches. Dear lord what a difference a patch makes! So far I’m only through patches 1-35 and they are a world better than the factory presets I was auditioning. Like Mikah912 said I think they are much more to my tastes then the factory ones.

Last night I updated the Axe FX 2 Mark 2 with the new quantum 1.05 firmware. By now this is standard procedure as Fractal seems to release firmware daily now! I also made sure to do a reset of the Axe this time. (Utility>Reset)Then I loaded the “A” bank of Fremen’s Quantum patches. These patches have the most detailed notes I have ever seen including exactly where to put the IR’s and where to get the ones he didn’t include. Top notch!

I still have a couple of problems that I need to sort. The Axe still, on some tones sounds a little compressed and or has a treble falloff. It’s strange because a/b with the Helix the Helix is much brighter across the board. I’m thinking that is not quite right. That brings me to my next hurtle.

The Axe is not playing nice with my recording DAW. I use Sonar Professional and for some reason it hats the Axe Fx’s usb ports for recording. I’ll be trying to get that sorted out today so I can give you all some sound clips.

Now for a bit of wish listing. I wish you could have a brief text description of each scene in a preset. That would totally help when looking at someone’s presets. I’d also love to have a mouse over on each amp and effect that told you a little something about them. That would help those of us who don’t have any idea what these 220+ amps are to have a starting place.

Thanks! More to follow.
 
veritechc said:
I am liking the Axe FX 2 better today because I have melted my friggin face off! Mikah912 from The Gear Page pointed me in the direction of Fremen's Quantum patches. Dear lord what a difference a patch makes! So far I’m only through patches 1-35 and they are a world better than the factory presets I was auditioning. Like Mikah912 said I think they are much more to my tastes then the factory ones.
Click to expand...

Freeman creates magical tones. His creativity along with his knowledge of the box are definitely reflected in his presets. I highly recommend donating on his web page if you find them useful. The first 50 or so factory presets of bank A are a no frills approach to demonstrate the amp and cab differences on the Axe. Banks B and C are there to demonstrate effects and the wide range of tones the box is capable of. Many who have learned how to properly use the Axe end up starting from scratch when creating their own patches.

veritechc said:
Last night I updated the Axe FX 2 Mark 2 with the new quantum 1.05 firmware. By now this is standard procedure as Fractal seems to release firmware daily now! I also made sure to do a reset of the Axe this time. (Utility>Reset)
Click to expand...

You don't need to do a reset after every firmware update. It is recommended when you buy something used since you have no idea what the previous owner set up. Also, people often tend to start adjusting stuff while learning the box and forget what they have done. Don't forget that I/O and MIDI control assignments are lost when doing this so you will have to reenter them. Read about that here.

veritechc said:
I’d also love to have a mouse over on each amp and effect that told you a little something about them. That would help those of us who don’t have any idea what these 220+ amps are to have a starting place.
Click to expand...

Amp models here.
Cab models here.
Effects here.

Yek has tirelessly documented the FAS products in the Fractal Audio Systems Wiki here. His work can not be understated and is a treasure trove of information. All the links I have given in the above post are from it. How he finds the time to keep it up to date and also help forum members here is beyond me.

Also, don't forget to check out Chris's web site here. He also is prominent on the forum helping others and his site is loaded with invaluable information.

Last but not least, I still highly recommend you try different guitars. In addition I would also eliminate running through the Helix prior to your input to the Axe. Please please please don't take this as a knock on the Helix because frankly I just don't have the time to go down that war path. :) I am just saying you should eliminate all outlying factors if you truly want to know and hear what the Axe FX brings to the table.

Have fun!
 
Last edited:
Can't say enough about Fremens patches through the years. They were instrumental in me learning my way around back when I got my Axe in (I think) FW9 days.
 
Here is a quick update with sound! Ok I am in love with Fremen whoever he is in a totally man crush sort of non gay way, lol. This particular voice inspired me to do my first Soundcloud clip! Its from his AtmoSynth Lead 5 Scenes from http://axefremen.blogspot.com/2015/09/quantum-10-presets.html. What this brilliant piece of programming does is makes the underlying synth tone with each of five scenes! Yes everything you hear on this clip is from the Axe FX!

I played this live into Sonar Professional while pressing the different "notes/scenes" on Axe Edit 3.

Here is the signal path:

Line 6 Variax 89f to Axe FX via from instrument cable. Out to stereo XLR's to Focusrite 18i20 then to Sonar via USB. No processing or effects added. Pure Axe FX. I used the Lester-5 setting on the Variax.



I am liking the Axe FX now. I think I am ready to do some side by side comparisons next week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom