Axe Ecstasy vs Real 20th Anniversary?

Variable

Variable

Inspired
Curious if anyone who owns a 20th anniversary could say how close the Axe gets (keeping in mind it’s not gunna be exact given tolerances, etc)? I have a bit of GAS for the real thing. I used to own a Classic and loved the blue and plexi modes.

I would be using it live with a 4x12 Friedman cab. What I’m wondering is if I could get the same magic (or, say, 95% of the magic) with my Axe and an SD Powerstage and save a bunch of dough?
 
I have the 20th 6L6 and a regular 101b version. they were my favorite amps before the AF3. maybe it's just me but even with bogner IR's and many an experiment in the tube and power settings I am not quite getting the sag right and the chewiness eludes me as well through FRFR's. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the bogs are some of the harder amps to model accurately and I like to bias them on the hot side which may not help. That said, with every new major FW revision it seems the gap is closing.

to get as close as possible I use a clean power amp and bogner cabs. the difference between a bogner cab and similar Marshall inspired cabs is pretty substantial to my ears for getting the signature sound/feel.

I'd wager you'd be pretty happy with with a fractal and a bogner cab vs. a Friedman/Marshall cab at a fraction the price of a 20th head. if you like the 6L6 sound only then I recommend the uber cab with 2 V30's and 2 G12T-75's otherwise the 4x V30 cab is a monster for EL34 rigs.

Look at it this way , if you get the cab first and aren't happy then you'll have the right cab when you get the head lol. Over the years I've tried many a bogner head in non-bogner cabs and they always sounded killer but the bog cabs just bring them to a whole other level.

EDIT: I should add I've only had trouble getting my XTC sound on the AF3, I found the Uber and Shiva models to be easier to dial in the way I like.

cheers
 
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i have an Ecstasy 101b and used to own the classic and shiva . i feel like the Axe3 is probably 70% there but it could be a combo of sound and feel lacking … I never really cared about it though. The Axefx does its thing and it sounds great. i also love my tube Amps . neither are going anywhere…
 
APOGEE123 said:
i have an Ecstasy 101b and used to own the classic and shiva . i feel like the Axe3 is probably 70% there but it could be a combo of sound and feel lacking … I never really cared about it though. The Axefx does its thing and it sounds great. i also love my tube Amps . neither are going anywhere…
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I think the 101b is a different amp than the 20th at least to me feel wise it is much chewier w low mids
What I think of when I think the Bogner sound
I would love to have a 101b in the Axe or at least the settings if FAS knows how to replicate it
 
So thickkkkkk for leads. I want that. Its a bit like an octaver going on somewhere.
 
I have a 20th XTC with EL34s and a 412 Bogner cab loaded with V30s. The character is there for sure with the axe models, but the real thing is so much more fun to play!
 
Satch4u3 said:
I have a 20th XTC with EL34s and a 412 Bogner cab loaded with V30s. The character is there for sure with the axe models, but the real thing is so much more fun to play!
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Is it the live aspect of playing the real thing that's more fun, or does it feel like the amp is doing something the models don't, all other parts of the signal chain being equal?

Running my BE-50 into my Fryette PS2 and then the Axe for cab sims, vs running the BE models in the Axe, I would tend to agree that I prefer playing the amp over the model. Their gain character is pretty similar, but on the BE-50 it sounds and feels like there is more sweetness/bigness in the midrange. It's hard to put into words, but it's one of the reasons I haven't sold my amps since I can usually tell the difference. Maybe it's psychological, but I notice a "something" with the real amps going into cab sims that I don't hear with the models. And that's not to say that the models still aren't excellent--the audience would never tell the difference anyway.
 
It's totally an amp in the room thing that is more exciting. If I were to hook up the XTC to a loadbox and run it through some IRs it's a much closer experience to the Axe models.
 
Satch4u3 said:
It's totally an amp in the room thing that is more exciting. If I were to hook up the XTC to a loadbox and run it through some IRs it's a much closer experience to the Axe models.
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Makes sense. That's what I felt when I briefly had an XTC Classic -- it does something with the guitar in the room and the feedback that is just ridiculously inspiring.

I guess I'm wondering if it's possible to get that same kind of guitar / feedback interaction with the XTC models and an SS poweramp like the SD Powerstation?
 
Variable said:
Is it the live aspect of playing the real thing that's more fun, or does it feel like the amp is doing something the models don't, all other parts of the signal chain being equal?

Running my BE-50 into my Fryette PS2 and then the Axe for cab sims, vs running the BE models in the Axe, I would tend to agree that I prefer playing the amp over the model. Their gain character is pretty similar, but on the BE-50 it sounds and feels like there is more sweetness/bigness in the midrange. It's hard to put into words, but it's one of the reasons I haven't sold my amps since I can usually tell the difference. Maybe it's psychological, but I notice a "something" with the real amps going into cab sims that I don't hear with the models. And that's not to say that the models still aren't excellent--the audience would never tell the difference anyway.
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Same experience here with ps2a as load box IR from 4CM FM9 (Helios head and synergy modules)
The real thing is more fun to play for sure but for live situation FM9 only
 
I agree. There's something about that chewiness that has eluded me so far with the Axe FX 3 Bogner Ecstasy model. It gets close, respectively so, and it may also be just me and how I dial it in, but the real amp sounds different. Or at least is easier to dial in to the expected sound/feel with the real thing.
 
I love lamp...

Amps and AFX are both good. And the flexibility in the AFX III is killer, and better compared to the AFX II i had.

Had the XTC EL34 Ann. but that is 3 years ago, so i can't compare.
However the Cornford MK50 vs Cornrob is very close, but the "amp in the room" is a thing i will not be without.

It's so fun to run a wet/dry/wet rig.... + that my Cornell Plexi with no loop gets fx :D
Amps -->Suhr RL --> Dry into a 4x12
-->AFX III (wet) -->Mesa 295 --> into two 4x12
-->Into Studio monitors (and unplug the dry cab for a more calm experience)
 
It’s been a while since I owned a XTC 20th. But I played through a friend of mine’s XTC 20th not too long ago.

Here’s a couple of things I found about the amp vs the AxeFx Euro models:

1. the Euro Red and Euro Red Mdrn models seems like they are modeled with the gain boost “On”. The real amp has a lot of gain on tap, but the red models in the AxeFx are just extreme. On the Euro Red Mdrn, at only 2 on the gain dial, there’s a hefty amount of gain (especially with the bright switch on). On the real amp you have to be closer to noon to reach this amount of gain. If the models are modeled with the gain boost “on”, that might explain it.

2. The gain boost in the Axe Fx doesn’t really work like the gain boost in the real amp. On the real amp, the gain boost adds a little extra gain but keeps the amp tight and clear. The gain boost in the AxeFx models adds a ton of gain and makes the amp really mushy.

3. The excursion switch on the real amp is modeled on the “depth” knob in the axe Fx. However, this doesn’t really work for all 3 excursion settings. For excursion “T” it works fine, since this is basically bypassing the depth circuit, so it can be modeled by putting depth to 0. And I’m guessing depth at 5 is the same as excursion “M”.
But on the real amp Excursion “L” adds a different value cap to the depth circuit, so not just more of the same as “M”. So you can not simulate excursion “L” by setting depth to 10 (or any setting, for that matter).

Now, just to be clear: with the latest firmware, the models sound better than they ever have. And they continue to improve with each firmware. This is just some of my experiences after playing the real amp.
 
I run my 101B into an OX Box and its a totally different experience than the AxeFX. The speaker simulation in the OX is awesome.
 
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