AX8 FOH with in-ears?

T

TimMcG1011

Inspired
Anyone going "ampless" with their AX8 and running direct to FOH with in ears? I've been doing this lately and wondering if anyone has advice/recommendations for getting a really good mix through their in ears. I'm finding that many presets that sound good when dialed in through my xitone don't translate well in my in ears. I'm using dual driver Shure (425) in ears and audio technica M3 wireless.

I've seen recommendations in the wiki for adjusting the cab block to help when using headphones, but since I should be hearing what I'm sending to FOH this wouldn't necessarily be the right place to start (or is it?)

Looking for any pointers.

Thanks!
 
I agree with Smittefar. We're moving to an in-ear system at Church over the next few months. I dial in my tones using an Atomic CLR. Unless you have some stellar in-ear monitors, I would trust what you have dialed in. I'm certainly not going to make changes to accommodate my headphones after dialing in tones on the CLR.
 
I go direct to FOH and use IEMs. I spend very little time on the IEM mix. We use an Aviom system so I can mix everything. I level out all of the other instruments, and dial in the singers. That's it. I am not looking for a killer sound experience. I just need to hear the other players so I can respond to what they are playing.
 
I use ultimate ear UE900s quad drivers. What I dial in on my clr translates just fine with my iem. Three important things imo. #1 my fx are stereo. #2 I don't go wireless with my iem. #3 I get my guitar tone sent to my iem unaffected by any changes FOH makes so I get straight ax guitar tones
 
I do this with my Axe Fx. I also have the M3 wireless. My IEMs are 64 Audio V6s six-way monitors. I use Xitones at home.

I can get a pretty decent sound direct from the Axe Fx to the IEMs but less happy with the results via wireless.

You might want to adjust the input pad down on the transmitter.

I agree on running stereo, although some guys here suggest otherwise.

The big thing for me (not being a big reverb user) is that reverb is pretty much a must for IEM.
 
I dial in patches on my monitors at home and it sounds good through my IEMs(64 Audio A3) but when I get to church and plug in through the Aviom it sounds much worse every time. The system is doing something and I don't know what.
 
I have tried going ampless and using IEMs. I just can't get used to them. I love direct to FOH but had to go back to wedge monitors. I use a JBL for the full monitor mix and a DXR10 for my guitar. IEM's just sound too isolated and lacking a fullness that I just couldn't get past.
 
Jammer77 said:
I have tried going ampless and using IEMs. I just can't get used to them. I love direct to FOH but had to go back to wedge monitors. I use a JBL for the full monitor mix and a DXR10 for my guitar. IEM's just sound too isolated and lacking a fullness that I just couldn't get past.
Click to expand...

I don't know anyone who liked it the first time they did it. It's nice that you have a choice. :)
 
I go FOH and use one in ear having the other open to ambient. I prefer this so the FOH can be as loud as possible and not compete with the monitors/stage volume. Works fine for me this way. Sometimes its loud enough to just hear through the FOH....which is good. I always have a little in my ear just in case.
 
J.Luke said:
I dial in patches on my monitors at home and it sounds good through my IEMs(64 Audio A3) but when I get to church and plug in through the Aviom it sounds much worse every time. The system is doing something and I don't know what.
Click to expand...

I find your post interesting...

I have been using IEM for the last 4 months. I use Alclair Tour Triple Drivers with the Allen & Heath ME-1.

I think this is a process with a lot of variables & a lot of potential frustration. There is definitely a learning curve!

The ME-1 works great. I use a cord to connect my IEM to it. I use a cord from guitar to AX8.

So I dial in a couple patches at home using my studio monitors. It feels good and sound good at home running about 90db.
At church and run stereo XLR's to FOH. The 2 channels are panned hard left & right. The EQ for each channel is set nearly flat.
I get the nearly flat mix back to my IEM through the ME-1.

I find my patches seem to have way too much treble / high end. (In my patches in the cab block i set the low cut to ~100Hz and high cut to ~5000Hz. Amp block, bright switch off, presence down treble ~6 no bright added, so I am doing the basics to keep the high end down.

I find that the sound changes constantly for me during or sound check and run through on Sunday mornings. It is very frustrating.
The mains go on first = one sound. A little later the monitors, consisting of 3 floor wedges are turned on = the second sound.
And as the musicians are getting comfortable with the stage volume things change. At first the drums were not mic'ed.
I asked that the sound guys place an overhead mic on the kit and that helped a lot to get the presence of the drums in my ears.

So with all the variables, how do I create patches that work well? The band doesn't have time for me to make advanced changes on the fly during Sunday morning warm up.
At this time I am more concerned with getting my IEM to sound and feel good. THEN if the FOH needs to adjust EQ we can discuss and work together.
 
scottp said:
I find your post interesting...

I have been using IEM for the last 4 months. I use Alclair Tour Triple Drivers with the Allen & Heath ME-1.

I think this is a process with a lot of variables & a lot of potential frustration. There is definitely a learning curve!

The ME-1 works great. I use a cord to connect my IEM to it. I use a cord from guitar to AX8.

So I dial in a couple patches at home using my studio monitors. It feels good and sound good at home running about 90db.
At church and run stereo XLR's to FOH. The 2 channels are panned hard left & right. The EQ for each channel is set nearly flat.
I get the nearly flat mix back to my IEM through the ME-1.

I find my patches seem to have way too much treble / high end. (In my patches in the cab block i set the low cut to ~100Hz and high cut to ~5000Hz. Amp block, bright switch off, presence down treble ~6 no bright added, so I am doing the basics to keep the high end down.

I find that the sound changes constantly for me during or sound check and run through on Sunday mornings. It is very frustrating.
The mains go on first = one sound. A little later the monitors, consisting of 3 floor wedges are turned on = the second sound.
And as the musicians are getting comfortable with the stage volume things change. At first the drums were not mic'ed.
I asked that the sound guys place an overhead mic on the kit and that helped a lot to get the presence of the drums in my ears.

So with all the variables, how do I create patches that work well? The band doesn't have time for me to make advanced changes on the fly during Sunday morning warm up.
At this time I am more concerned with getting my IEM to sound and feel good. THEN if the FOH needs to adjust EQ we can discuss and work together.
Click to expand...
My iem are a a bit brighter than my tone through FOH or clr. I just blame that on the iem / headphone amp in the p16 (but same happened with other playback systems I have used) I suggested in my other post and someone else did too that it is important that the signal they are sending you is unaltered. I have played with headphone and now iem live for 7 years. I know right away if I am getting my signal sent to be direct from Ax or after some adjusting. That is crucial to me. I have those one guy who I deal with from time to time who butchers my tone and insists he is making it better. I have to always make him change the signal he sends me because it post his changes
 
bshaw92 said:
I go FOH and use one in ear having the other open to ambient. I prefer this so the FOH can be as loud as possible and not compete with the monitors/stage volume. Works fine for me this way. Sometimes its loud enough to just hear through the FOH....which is good. I always have a little in my ear just in case.
Click to expand...
You know this is pretty dangerous, right? The volume required to make 1 in ear loud enough to hear relative to the ambient sound is very high, and it can really damage your hearing.
 
J.Luke said:
I dial in patches on my monitors at home and it sounds good through my IEMs(64 Audio A3) but when I get to church and plug in through the Aviom it sounds much worse every time. The system is doing something and I don't know what.
Click to expand...

Check with the sound guy if you aren't familiar with the board. Even though your Avioms are running pre-fader, etc... they probably still have EQ's, etc applied. If you are running Stereo, make sure the sound guy has your hard panned left/right. When my son is running his AX8 through the FOH, I'm usually running sound. I set him up with a 0db/Pad engaged. I start with a flatted EQ and usually only need to add some post compression to balance the mix. I also do some mild EQ adjustments that would eventually be heard in his ears to balance the mix as a whole.
 
bshaw92 said:
Yes, if I had the volume up. But I don't try to equalize it.
Click to expand...

Right. As long as you set your in ears to a normal comfortable volume, and pull one ear out, you're fine. That's what I do. It's only dangerous if you feel like you can't hear, and try to turn the volume up.
 
Bones43x said:
Right. As long as you set your in ears to a normal comfortable volume, and pull one ear out, you're fine. That's what I do. It's only dangerous if you feel like you can't hear, and try to turn the volume up.
Click to expand...
Try this:

Put both ear pieces in.

Adjust the level.

Take one ear piece out.

If you then need to make the one ear louder, you are risking damage.

The volume difference is significant with one ear out.

The other way is to do this:

Put one ear piece in.

Adjust the level.

Put the other ear piece in.

Way too loud, right?

Every single article I have read warns against doing this one IEM because of the risk for hearing damage.

I'm not going to continue badgering you guys, just want to make sure you are aware. I know it would suck to lose your hearing!
 
unix-guy said:
Every single article I have read warns against doing this one IEM because of the risk for hearing damage.

I'm not going to continue badgering you guys, just want to make sure you are aware. I know it would suck to lose your hearing!
Click to expand...

I understand...that's basically what I said. Read my post again.

I play at church, and everyone has Avioms. I like to use my left IEM for click, and a balanced mix, and leave the right out to hear my amp and the room. Several years ago, I played through a POD X3 Live, and I hated the silent(I call it dead) stage...with no feel or impact, it's hard for me to get into the music and play 100%.

Other than my amp, and an acoustic guitar, it's a silent stage...Bass and keys direct, and the drums are in an iso box. I'm actually going to be using the AX8 for the first time tomorrow, but I'm gonna have my own monitor to substitute for the amp feel.
 
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