AX8 and Preset Switching -vs- Scene Switching ........ a few questions please ?

[ben ifin]

Hi all

As a current Kemper user - but waitlisted AX8 buyer - here goes:-

=> even though the AX8 has dedicated FSW built-in I presume that it will still have the normal Axe FX switching lag from full preset to full preset ?

=> more generally, does X / Y switching also have the same full preset to full preset switching lag ?

If this switching lag is likely still going to be the case even with the AX8, my understanding is that the way to get "seamless" switching is via " Scenes " ..... so ....... with respect to setting up Scenes ........

=> in a given 12 block scene, and noting that I will only be able to run 1 x Amp Block at a time can I insert, say, 6 different Amp Blocks and have the 5 Amp Blocks that I don't want "by-passed", and just have the 1 Amp Block I do want for that Scene "un-bypassed" ?

=> if this " 6 x Amp Blocks in a Scene " is doable, will it be essentially impossible due to CPU load ?

=> or do Amp Blocks only use CPU-juice when they are active/un-bypassed ?

=> or more globally speaking, is the AX8 limited to only 1 x Amp Block per Scene ?

Hoping the above makes sense and that I have understood the "logic" and "methodology" of using Scenes correctly (?)

The reason I ask is that with my current Kemper Setup [ and planned AX8 setup ] for any given show, I use about 8 fully different / discrete "amps" [ie: Vox, Fender, Marhall, Gibson, DC30, Bogner, EVH, Div by 13 ] for all my sounds ....... but ........ I also often use several of these amps within songs, so moving from "amp-to-amp" seamlessly is pretty important.

Many thanks,
Ben

 

[chris]

there is 1 amp block per Preset. so you can't load 6 amp blocks. a Scene just turns things off and on at the same time (basically, also can change XY). so you don't ever have different blocks in different Scenes.

any block put in the Layout uses CPU even if bypassed. it has to be this way, because imagine if you were at 90% with things bypassed, then suddenly turned everything on. so inserting a block into the Preset always uses its CPU so there are no surprises.

to be technical, there is no "lag" but instead an audio gap so there is no popping sound due to parameters changing suddenly. this is not a limitation of the Axe-Fx or AX8, but a limitation of where technology is today.

 

[ben ifin]

Huge thanks Chris - genuinely appreciate the information.

So I get this right from my end [ .... I'm a bit slow on these sorts of things .... ]

For the AX8 .....[ not the XL+ ] ...... it is .....

a -> 1 x Active Amp Block per Preset (?)

b -> this 1 x Active Amp Block per Preset can also be X / Y switched [ ie: 2 different amp blocks in the one Preset but never both amp blocks at the same time ] (?)

c -> each Preset can have up to 8 Scenes [or "snapshots" so to speak] so each block within the preset can be set to differing on/off states (?)

d -> as long as I am going from Scene to Scene within a Preset, there is no lag / its instantaneous (?)

e -> if the Preset has 2 x Amp Blocks that will be X / Y triggered via Scene's, those X / Y Amp Block Scene changes will also have no lag / be instantaneous (?)

How close to correct am I now (?)

Thanks again,
Ben

 

[ben ifin]

..... hmmmm so I gather I'm l-o-n-g w-a-y off the mark ? .....

 

[Uignal]

Let me take a stab at this. I'm coming from a few years with my AFII and knowing what's been released about the AX8.

a - It's been confirmed 1 amp block per preset, yes. Keep in mind ACTIVE state has no bearing. Presets can hold one amp block. Period.

b - Amp blocks have an X/Y state. So that amp block can hold two different amp models. (Didn't check specs but I fairly positive the amp block will be X/Y)

c - Scenes are as you described them, snapshot states of the preset. The preset has all of the block listed. Scenes control what blocks are on/off/XY.

d - You can still experience some "lag" in scenes. If your scene change goes from simple blocks off to blocks on (or vice versa) there won't be a gap. It's changing the X/Y states that have the potential to cause a gap.

e - This is an example of what generally DOES cause a slight gap. First, keep in mind the preset will NOT have 2 amp blocks. It will have 1 amp block with an X and Y state. X can be model 1 and Y can be model 2. You'll still just have 1 amp block though. (Unless you move up to a rack version AFII/XL/XL+).

Let's look at it this way:

Amp Block
X - Recto II
Y - Deluxe Verb

Your preset has all of the settings saved and loaded. It knows your Recto has gain at 5 and Verb is using Treble at 6, etc. So these settings are there and loaded in. You turn on Scene one which is your Verb. The Verb amp and its settings are loaded into the "working" space of the CPU. It's actively receiving an input from your guitar and processing it. The Recto is "known" by the preset...but it's not active. So it's not loaded. You switch to scene two which does an X/Y change on your amp block. Now the AX8 (or any other Fractal product) needs to "dump" the current amp block settings from it's "working" memory space to load the other amp. The small amount of time when this occurs accounts for you audio gap. Otherwise you'd hear a very audible popping that most systems won't play nice with.

I don't think I did...but I'm sure others will correct me if I have misspoke or described something wrong.
Hope this helps.
Joe

 

[john_p]

The gap I keep reading about - how long are we talking? I suspect it will be easier for me to use different presets but if it's really noticeable then I'll have limit my choices and use scenes.

 

[Uignal]

It might be better to search the AFII forums for more info on the switching time. I'm certain I've seen older videos of people showing the time. It's really ALMOST instant. Using presets instead of scenes won't remedy the situation. The preset data will need to be loaded when you switch. This includes every block setting as well as the amp block.

 

[ben ifin]

Many thanks.

So putting Scene switching side, how fast is the preset ron preset switching ?

And the Amp Block X/ Y switching ?

Are we talking in order of like 50-100ms. or is it in order of 500-1000ms ?

Thanks again.
Ben

 

[benvigil]

So putting Scene switching side, how fast is the preset ron preset switching ?

And the Amp Block X/ Y switching ?

Are we talking in order of like 50-100ms. or is it in order of 500-1000ms ?

Thanks again.
Ben

This is the best video I've found explaining the performance with Presets, X/Y Switching, and Scenes:

 

[luthier42]

For what it's worth, many multi-channel amps have a slight volume drop or mute during channel switching to reduce the pop produced by the relay. The duration of this drop is minimal, as is the Fractal X/Y switching delay.