Automatic Gain Staging for Input

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indeloon85

Inspired
I’m not sure if this has been discussed (I’m sure it has) but wondering if we can get a function where the Axe Fx will do an automatic adjustment of the “ideal” input (or at least a set target created by the user).
I’ve seen a couple of amp plugins that do this and figured it might be super useful when changing from guitar to guitar.
 
I brought this up once before and was subjected to 5 pages of pushback :). I don't know exactly why when this is a useful feature found in competing products. AxeFX forum members can sometimes be a touch defensive when it comes to suggesting new features :).
 
I’m down to hear some legitimate push back but ya it seems like an improvement on the unit’s functionality in my opinion. Even the function to set a user target level that the input would quickly calibrate itself to would be useful even for people that like to slam the inputs.
 
The AxeFX is calibrated such that the virtual amp or effect is hit with the same level as the real amp would. That means that it sounds different to plug a strat into an amp versus a Les Paul. 'Auto gain' would negate that feature.

It's a fix in the plugin world, because there is no way of having the plugin know what the actual level was, but it is definitely not authentic behavior.
 
Smittefar said:
The AxeFX is calibrated such that the virtual amp or effect is hit with the same level as the real amp would. That means that it sounds different to plug a strat into an amp versus a Les Paul. 'Auto gain' would negate that feature.

It's a fix in the plugin world, because there is no way of having the plugin know what the actual level was, but it is definitely not authentic behavior.
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But we have an input control that we all set to “tickle” the red lights. Assuming that this is the process of gain staging to mimic the amp’s input, people are also finding that they like to push or even pull back the input depending on the amp. This then begs me to believe that the ideal input for each amp might be different and having a quick calibration per amp (unless this is already done) would be beneficial. I could totally be talking out of my ass though haha!
 
The input level you adjust for the input meters is before the AD converters. It's mean to maximize the signal to noise ratio of the conversion to digital. Level changes there are automatically compensated in the opposite direction after the AD conversion to get back to the original nominal level of the instrument. Turning up or down the input level does not affect the amp sims except at extreme ends of the control's range.
 
indeloon85 said:
I’m down to hear some legitimate push back but ya it seems like an improvement on the unit’s functionality in my opinion. Even the function to set a user target level that the input would quickly calibrate itself to would be useful even for people that like to slam the inputs.
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Good luck. I predict people will tell you you're wrong to suggest the AxeFX should have a feature that is not found in a tube amp :).
 
It's not right or wrong. It's just a more authentic/accurate way to do things. It ensures the amp sim will react to your guitars output level just like if you were plugging into the real amp itself.
 
mr_fender said:
It's not right or wrong. It's just a more authentic/accurate way to do things. It ensures the amp sim will react to your guitars output level just like if you were plugging into the real amp itself.
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I think you may be misunderstanding; I understand that the the request is for a feature to adjust what we'd call "I/O input" levels to be optimal before the converter, not after. In other words, check for peaks and pad the input/boost the output. This is the same thing you do when you set levels manually to tickle the red. A similar feature is sometimes used to set noise gate thresholds automatically.

Not a terrible idea, perhaps just not one deemed worthy of the effort to do it compared to the kinds of more exciting things that have been happening lately.
 
Ah I gotcha. You want the automatic part before the AD conversion but still have it reverse compensated to ensure accurate input to the amp block. That would actually be pretty handy.
 
I think I understand the OP's want and that it could be useful. But how would it affect my input levels to the AFX3 when I intentionally roll up/down my guitar's volume control?
 
It would have to be something that you trigger and then leave, like hitting a learn button to set the Input level and then play hard on the guitar for 10 seconds or something to set the max level automatically. The rest of the time it would stay set at that level.
 
mr_fender said:
It would have to be something that you trigger and then leave, like hitting a learn button to set the Input level and then play hard on the guitar for 10 seconds or something to set the max level automatically. The rest of the time it would stay set at that level.
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Yup, this would be probably the ideal process. I'd assume this would help with keeping presets for things like Compressors/noise gates, etc. pretty universal when jumping between guitars and such. I dunno, just sounded like a good idea when I posted this morning haha!
 
indeloon85 said:
Yup, this would be probably the ideal process. I'd assume this would help with keeping presets for things like Compressors/noise gates, etc. pretty universal when jumping between guitars and such.
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True. I proposed it as a solution to a different problem though: a way to help with preset sharing, since that process is often undermined because you have no idea how much input level to the grid the preset author was using when they created the preset. I suspect if you could get some automated help with setting that level, it would facilitate sharing of presets, including the factory presets.

Matt's idea is interesting, but is something different. He's proposing some automated help to set the A/D input level to achieve an optimum S/N ratio, whereas your idea is to get some automated help to achieve a nominal input level to the grid, which would help with the compressors and gates and amp blocks you're referring to. In past discussions, there have been objections to your idea because that's not how a real amp works. That's a valid viewpoint, but I think there's room for both that "authentic" viewpoint and the feature you're suggesting, especially since it would be optional.
 
People often make the assumption that changing the I/O menu Input Level changes the level going to the grid. It does not except at the extreme ends of the control. In the roughly 10% to 90% range of the control, you'll see very little to no difference in level and tone going to the grid.

If you want to globally affect the level going to the grid, use the Input Gain parameter in the I/O menu instead.
 
mr_fender said:
People often make the assumption that changing the I/O menu Input Level changes the level going to the grid. It does not except at the extreme ends of the control. In the roughly 10% to 90% range of the control, you'll see very little to no difference in level and tone going to the grid.

If you want to globally affect the level going to the grid, use the Input Gain parameter in the I/O menu instead.
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That's right. It's confusing, but this thread is about the Input Gain, not the Input Level. The feature the OP mentioned in plugins that would automatically help balance presets for different guitars and provide nominal input to blocks like compressors and gates is analogous to the AxeFX Input Gain, not the AxeFX Input Level.
 
GlennO said:
That's right. It's confusing, but this thread is about the Input Gain, not the Input Level. The feature the OP mentioned in plugins that would automatically help balance presets for different guitars and provide nominal input to blocks like compressors and gates is analogous to the AxeFX Input Gain, not the AxeFX Input Level.
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But that would be contradictory to the authentic design target of the AxeFX - Just like a tube amp dialled in for super hot pickups will not sound great with a 50s strat, a preset for hot pickups will not sound great with said strat.
When trying other peoples preset, it can be a good idea to play around with the level control in the input block. That will to some extent compensate for hotter/cooler pickups. But I think, this has to be done by ear.
 
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