Atomic active CLR - Missing "body"

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
So I've been testing and gigging my active CLR for about 5-6 weeks. Despite the fact that I can at last clearly hear myself on stage, the consensus amongst my bandmates and I is that for our onstage sound we miss the fullness and body that comes with playing through a genuine guitar cab. I've tried EQing my CLR all different ways but I cannot reproduce the same full, bottomy sound of my regular cabs. Pushing the low end merely results in an unbalanced, somewhat boxy "honk". The temptation is to go back to my power amp & cab setup except that I prefer what my CLR does with the tone in the upper frequencies... smoother, less harsh, more forgiving (even without EQ adjustments). Anyone else experiencing this?
 
How many speakers did your guitar cab have? Where were the speakers aimed compared to your CLR?
 
Chris's questions are very relevant, also what IR's are you using ?? Tried the OwnHammer MIX package IR's ??? - those gave me perfect mic'ed cab sounds instantly
 
It could be your IR not giving you enough bottom end. I made a thread about this very issue the other day here about getting a more realistic "amp in the room" kind of tone and feel from your CLRs. I thought the same thing you did at first, that the CLRs or FRFR route altogether wasn't giving me enough low end until I tried out a few things. Now I'm getting at least as much clear and clean low end as I was getting out of my real cabs, if not more.

You can't just put a PEQ before or after the cab block and bump up the bass because the IR probably completely filters out most of the low bass you're talking about. You'll want to try a few other things out first.
 
Rocket Brother said:
Chris's questions are very relevant, also what IR's are you using ?? Tried the OwnHammer MIX package IR's ??? - those gave me perfect mic'ed cab sounds instantly
Click to expand...

My IR is a mix of stock cabs #41 and #38. I haven't tried the OwnHammers. I remember buying a shedload of Redwirez IRs when I was on the Ultra and everyone was raving about them but I ended up never using them as I always preferred my regular cabs. So now I'm a bit leary about spending more money on such things, although I appreciate that the tech and the firmware has moved on a great deal.
 
GreatGreen said:
It could be your IR not giving you enough bottom end. I made a thread about this very issue the other day here about getting a more realistic "amp in the room" kind of tone and feel from your CLRs. I thought the same thing you did at first, that the CLRs or FRFR route altogether wasn't giving me enough low end until I tried out a few things. Now I'm getting at least as much clear and clean low end as I was getting out of my real cabs, if not more.

You can't just put a PEQ before or after the cab block and bump up the bass because the IR probably completely filters out most of the low bass you're talking about. You'll want to try a few other things out first.
Click to expand...
What can I do then besides purchasing aftermarket IRs? I'll start by sifting through the stock cabs I guess. What are you using?
 
Stringtheorist said:
The CLR is mounted on a pole
Click to expand...

instant loss of bass (no coupling with floor, especially compared to your previous setup).
increased clarity due to speaker being at ear level (much different than pushing "some of the sound up to my head").

I used one or two 2x12 cabs placed vertically, side by side
Click to expand...
at least 1 or 3 less speakers than your previous rig. placed side by side increased low end response due to coupling.
this in addition to the speaker not being on the floor (coupling) vastly reduces the bass.


you've basically gone from using sharpie to a fine-tip pen. both write well, but one just has more ink coming out.

none of what you did is "wrong" but you must understand the differences.
 
I am all about the Ownhammers through my CLR. T2 "SP" mix. You've spent so much on the axe and clr, try one of the mix packages that fits your needs.
 
Stringtheorist said:
What can I do then besides purchasing aftermarket IRs? I'll start by sifting through the stock cabs I guess. What are you using?
Click to expand...

Right now I've been experimenting a lot with the Basketweave TV Mix IR, then in parallel with that I just route the naked Amp block into a Filter block set to Lowpass at about 120Hz. I'll route that signal back into the main path and adjust the Filter block's level to taste from there. It's a great way to add bass back into your system. You don't need to mix in much of this signal, just enough to get some thump back into your sound.

Here's a pic:



WORD OF WARNING:

Doing this to your tone, while it could potentially be very satisfying to you, is probably not going to be ideal for live or studio mix. Your bass player and sound guy will probably like you less for reintroducing lots of bass into your signal. But it can definitely give your tone more body if you adjust it right!
 
Last edited:
+1 on the OH SP mixes. Scott did a killer job, brought new life to my presets.

Have you tried the CLR on the floor? I normally run my FRs on poles but experimented one day with 'em on the floor and the "boom" was immediate. My presets sound killer on the poles, however, the floor brought a little too much bottom into the room.

An expensive solution is to buy another CLR and run it on the other side of the stage- that would add some oomph for your bandmates and fill things up nicely. Maybe run your side on the pole and the other side on the floor...
 
FR has less directivity and punch than conventional speakers.
This is not solved by adding bass.
I'm not convinced that this is remedied merely by switching IRs either, unless you're going to mix special recipes.
EQ-ing helps (low mids). For example, try Tyler's mid boost trick. Or experiment with the Global EQ until you get that punch back.

Still, it won't be the same. But... You use a CLR as well as a guitar cab for the best of both worlds.
 
Stringtheorist said:
So I've been testing and gigging my active CLR for about 5-6 weeks. Despite the fact that I can at last clearly hear myself on stage, the consensus amongst my bandmates and I is that for our onstage sound we miss the fullness and body that comes with playing through a genuine guitar cab. I've tried EQing my CLR all different ways but I cannot reproduce the same full, bottomy sound of my regular cabs. Pushing the low end merely results in an unbalanced, somewhat boxy "honk". The temptation is to go back to my power amp & cab setup except that I prefer what my CLR does with the tone in the upper frequencies... smoother, less harsh, more forgiving (even without EQ adjustments). Anyone else experiencing this?
Click to expand...

I've tried lots of different FRFR speakers (including CLR) and none come even close to the "fullness" that my cab gives me, the traditional sound i guess that i want to hear. For jamming/rehearsals, I need to use power amp->cab for great results. FRFR works ok for when I'm playing by myself at home, and I enjoy playing around with IR's once in a while.
 
Open or closed back cabs? (What you were using before)

Anyway, I'll say it again...if you are expecting and frfr product to replace and replicate exactly what a guitar cab is giving you, whether in the room or on stage, you're going to be disappointed. It's not even what they are intended for.
 
Stringtheorist said:
So I've been testing and gigging my active CLR for about 5-6 weeks. Despite the fact that I can at last clearly hear myself on stage, the consensus amongst my bandmates and I is that for our onstage sound we miss the fullness and body that comes with playing through a genuine guitar cab. I've tried EQing my CLR all different ways but I cannot reproduce the same full, bottomy sound of my regular cabs. Pushing the low end merely results in an unbalanced, somewhat boxy "honk". The temptation is to go back to my power amp & cab setup except that I prefer what my CLR does with the tone in the upper frequencies... smoother, less harsh, more forgiving (even without EQ adjustments). Anyone else experiencing this?
Click to expand...

Yes I did.

Bandmates had similar reactions.

I had a brief honeymoon period after which I ended up returning my CLR after two gigs.

I switched over to real cabs and could not be happier.
 
First you need to accept that direct-to-FOH and a conventional cab/power amp are two separate things. They do not do the same thing. Some people are not ready for direct-to-FOH. That's okay. The key is to note this - your success with direct-to-FOH it is not the speaker. It's the entire paradigm. If you use best practices (which I'll get to) you can determine if it is for you or not. It's a major distinction that applies to all speakers that ascribe to the FRFR paradigm in speaker design. Using a speaker/cab IR in your preset is the actual matter in discussion.

You need to name some of your amps you use in the Axe-FX and I'll offer you suggestions. Your issues are twofold: the first is to understand the difference between what direct-to-FOH means. FRFR is a misnomer; it's not descriptive nor a proper way to address this. FRFR describes the type of speaker in a way; and it's become excepted as a normal usage of the acronym, but it's not very useful in practical terms to address the overall paradigm of having your speaker/cab/mic/microphone preamp used in the preset to present an ideal 'spoon fed' mix ready guitar signal to FOH (or recording desk).

The tones generated are filtered through and a result of not just the amp modeling but a hugely important main component of the direct-to-FOH experience. The IR.

It's the IR. It's all about the IR, it's always been about the IR and it will always be about the IR. Not the speaker you are using (CLR or not); but the IR. If you will not work with them as much an open mind and focus as you are going to work with the modeling and signal flow of your presets; direct-to-FOH will not work for you completely dependent on the IR.

What you need to determine is an ideal situation using the proper IR and determine if the direct-to-FOH paradigm is right for you. Name an amp block that you use the most and we can offer you some suggestions on best practices to see how this all can work rather than stabbing in the dark at demons. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom