Anyone hear a nasty brightness in the Matchless sim

J

james...

Experienced
This is a sim I always want to love but I can never dial out the brightness that I keep hearing in the upper mid-lower highs section. Doesn't matter what I do in the advanced parameters. The harshness just stays there. I tried EQing it out. It works, but then the amp is so bassy that it's not worth playing anyway.

Am I alone here?
 
Your not alone.

I have played a couple Matchless amps...I don't remember which model but they sounded nothing like the sims IMO.

Those 2 sims are my least favorites by a long shot.
 
I have a feeling Cliff might have been given a bad schem for this amp. I've heard clips of the Chief and it sounds WAY warmer than the sim.
 
Here's a trick to try with the Matchless model in the Axe-FX.

I worked a long time on my Matchless preset and felt a lot like you did. I owned DC-30 that I loved; and I've owned 2 Clubmans and a Matchless 212 that I REALLY loved (all of it Sampson era Matchless). I have a lot of recordings of myself playing the Matchless amps I've owned to compare Apples to Apples, so I know where I wanted to get with the Axe-FX.

Here are some of my Matchless amps and cabs from days gone by
All-the-mics-on-the-Matchle.jpg

DCP00855.jpg

DC30-Shot.jpg

DCP01653.jpg

DCP0154046.jpg



I use the following 'tricks' to get my Matchless tone nailed in the Axe-FX:

- Use Boutique 1 as your amp block choice. Reset everything to stock in the block... and then do the following:
- Turn the Treble way down (bright switch OFF) in the Amp Block. WAY down. Use the Presence control as your treble. Crank it up. Way up.
- Turn the 'Boost' setting in the amp block to 'on'.
- Set the preamp drive to taste (I use it around 6.10 or so) for single coils
- Bass down a bit from noon, middle up a bit from noon (to taste)
- Turn DOWN the Master to about 4.33
- Adjust the Low Cut Frequency in the Advanced Tab to taste (it's good at 160hz stock setting for me)
- Use my 'Vox' Red Wirez Cabinet (see the Patches section and download my zip file there if you own the Red Wirez Cabs; create your mix using my recipe). If you use stock cabs, use the 212 Vox or 112 Vox. No cab distortion, Air setting at about 3500hz and 5% for Air Mix.

Real Matchless amps don't do sweet overdriven stuff with humbuckers, unless you have very low output (like SD Seth Lovers) and turn the volume on the guitar down. The sweet 'broken glass in honey' overdrive pushed clean/light OD tone with single coils is what I shoot for with Matchless amps.
 
Thanks scott.

I'll try it tomorrow. Sounds like it might work. If it does I may have found my new favorite clean amp.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I use the following 'tricks' to get my Matchless tone nailed in the Axe-FX:

- Use Boutique 1 as your amp block choice. Reset everything to stock in the block... and then do the following:
- Turn the Treble way down (bright switch OFF) in the Amp Block. WAY down. Use the Presence control as your treble. Crank it up. Way up.
- Turn the 'Boost' setting in the amp block to 'on'.
- Set the preamp drive to taste (I use it around 6.10 or so) for single coils
- Bass down a bit from noon, middle up a bit from noon (to taste)
- Turn DOWN the Master to about 4.33
- Adjust the Low Cut Frequency in the Advanced Tab to taste (it's good at 160hz stock setting for me)
- Use my 'Vox' Red Wirez Cabinet (see the Patches section and download my zip file there if you own the Red Wirez Cabs; create your mix using my recipe). If you use stock cabs, use the 212 Vox or 112 Vox. No cab distortion, Air setting at about 3500hz and 5% for Air Mix.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips Scott..however I couldn't figure out which cab names are the Vox :?. I looked at the cab wiki too..
 
hp/mp said:
[quote="Scott Peterson":eek:dlwc9ba]
I use the following 'tricks' to get my Matchless tone nailed in the Axe-FX:

- Use Boutique 1 as your amp block choice. Reset everything to stock in the block... and then do the following:
- Turn the Treble way down (bright switch OFF) in the Amp Block. WAY down. Use the Presence control as your treble. Crank it up. Way up.
- Turn the 'Boost' setting in the amp block to 'on'.
- Set the preamp drive to taste (I use it around 6.10 or so) for single coils
- Bass down a bit from noon, middle up a bit from noon (to taste)
- Turn DOWN the Master to about 4.33
- Adjust the Low Cut Frequency in the Advanced Tab to taste (it's good at 160hz stock setting for me)
- Use my 'Vox' Red Wirez Cabinet (see the Patches section and download my zip file there if you own the Red Wirez Cabs; create your mix using my recipe). If you use stock cabs, use the 212 Vox or 112 Vox. No cab distortion, Air setting at about 3500hz and 5% for Air Mix.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips Scott..however I couldn't figure out which cab names are the Vox :?. I looked at the cab wiki too..[/quote:eek:dlwc9ba]

Brit 112 or Brit 212.
 
Scott Peterson said:
[quote="hp/mp":1un2w0pz]
Thanks for the tips Scott..however I couldn't figure out which cab names are the Vox :?. I looked at the cab wiki too..
Click to expand...

Brit 112 or Brit 212.[/quote:1un2w0pz]
Thanks :D
 
Scott,
Thank you for the post! I own a '91 Matchless HC-30 and matching 4x10 bottom (looks exactly like your gray clubman 35 & DC, was that a '91-'92 model?). For the life of me, I can't get that matchless tone out of the axe. That's not to say I can't get a good tone, but I've tweaked axe and A/B'd vs the HC for hours & hours and can't get there. I feel like I get it about 85% there, but there's still something missing. I've tried the Boutique Models before, but usually move on to an AC-30 or MAZ since Boutique is not an HC/DC model and the others are closer in design. It's difficult for me to describe the Matchless tone (broken glass in honey is close) so articulating what's missing is a real challenge. I've often wondered how much of the missing tone is due to the lack of an amp model w/ef86 preamp. Channel 1 of the HC/DC is AC30/4 replica so the ac30 or maz models closely related. But Channel 2, which is the one I use, uses the ef86 vs 12ax7 and sounds completely different vs Channel 1 imo. That said, it sounds like you've made it work in the axe and I'll certainly give your settings a shot.

BTW-How could you bring yourself to getting rid of all those Matchless Amps and Cabs?! Dude, that's crazy! I've Always felt like the black and turquoise Clubman 35 head with a 2x12 cab would be a great companion to my HC-30 4x10 cab rig. Seeing your pics has me jonesing for a clubman 35. Thanks a lot!

Chris
 
bigedawg said:
Scott,
Thank you for the post! I own a '91 Matchless HC-30 and matching 4x10 bottom (looks exactly like your gray clubman 35 & DC, was that a '91-'92 model?). For the life of me, I can't get that matchless tone out of the axe. That's not to say I can't get a good tone, but I've tweaked axe and A/B'd vs the HC for hours & hours and can't get there. I feel like I get it about 85% there, but there's still something missing. I've tried the Boutique Models before, but usually move on to an AC-30 or MAZ since Boutique is not an HC/DC model and the others are closer in design. It's difficult for me to describe the Matchless tone (broken glass in honey is close) so articulating what's missing is a real challenge. I've often wondered how much of the missing tone is due to the lack of an amp model w/ef86 preamp. Channel 1 of the HC/DC is AC30/4 replica so the ac30 or maz models closely related. But Channel 2, which is the one I use, uses the ef86 vs 12ax7 and sounds completely different vs Channel 1 imo. That said, it sounds like you've made it work in the axe and I'll certainly give your settings a shot.

BTW-How could you bring yourself to getting rid of all those Matchless Amps and Cabs?! Dude, that's crazy! I've Always felt like the black and turquoise Clubman 35 head with a 2x12 cab would be a great companion to my HC-30 4x10 cab rig. Seeing your pics has me jonesing for a clubman 35. Thanks a lot!

Chris
Click to expand...

Have you dialed it up as I noted above yet? You might be very surprised. ;)

My complete description of my favorite Matchless type of tones are "broken glass wrapped in honey with fluffy clouds around it all"; I know that tone, lived that tone, loved that tone. I recorded the better part of the two released and 3-4 unreleased projects I worked on in the mid-90's to late 90's doing the Marilyn Mack Group and then my solo disc. The Matchless amps and the Guytron were my go-to amps during that time frame.

I sold them, as I sell anything, out of need and not want. If I could, I'd have ALL the amps I owned and loved back... but there are priorities in life and you have to make the right decisions when events are bigger than you are.

I fought the Axe-FX for that tone from day one and found it. I'll share my preset some time, perhaps after the next firmware. I use it a lot, but have worked SO hard on it that I don't want to share it, I want to selfishly keep it to myself. :D The keys to finding it are above. Start with a completely stock amp block and use the Boutique 1 block. Then follow my little guide above and you'll find it.

I use the Red Wirez IR's and have a 'mix' of IR's that I use for the Vox/Matchless/Dr. Z type of tones. There is a zip file with the recipe in there in the patches section. Of the stock cabs, the Brit 112 and 212 are closest.

I use the Axe-FX to build core tones with a set layout and order of pedals based around my preferences. The core amp tones are essential to what I do with the box. Matchless has been a big part of what I do since early in the 90's.

My first Clubman was a very early model (the gray one), 1991?. The teal/black was a 93? or there abouts. The DC-30 was also from that era. I could look up the insurance riders from that time to find out if you really want to know.

Peace.
 
I built an amp based on the DC30 and it sounds really good. Thick yet chimey. When I checked out the sim in the Axe I thought it sounded nothing like what I know and have heard of the Matchless sound. I haven't spent much time with it because I figured it was just a crappy amp sim and there were others to get to know.

Scott, seeing that you have a lot of experience with Matchless and feel you got a good patch with it, you've inspired me to give it real chance and try some of your suggestions. I would love to get that real Matchless tone from the Axe. It's just about my favorite.

Can you post a clip?
 
Since I posted, I have followed the little road map to Matchless Heaven. You my friend might be a genius! I'm not completely there, but I'm getting closer. The presence control trick is one I haven't thought of before. That's Brilliant! I moved the presence freq up slightly from stock as well. I'm going to a/b with my HC30 this weekend and will post my results. I don't have the redwirez, yet, so I'm jumping between the boutique cab and the 2x12 blue. I think I like the boutique better. It has a unique tonal characteristic that I find similar to my 4x10.

I hear what you're saying about priorities and I hope I didn't offend you with my comments.

No need to research the exact dating of the Matchless Amps. Seeing the grey vinyl, chrome handle w/dark grey plastic insert and dark grey grill cloth just struck a cord with me. It's dead nuts on the HC30 & 4x10 bottom I have. I found it's a quick way recognize the earlier matchless product, especially they chrome handle w/dark grey plastic insert. You don't see a lot of those around and they certainly don't make them like that anymore!


Chris
 
kev said:
I built an amp based on the DC30 and it sounds really good. Thick yet chimey. When I checked out the sim in the Axe I thought it sounded nothing like what I know and have heard of the Matchless sound. I haven't spent much time with it because I figured it was just a crappy amp sim and there were others to get to know.

Scott, seeing that you have a lot of experience with Matchless and feel you got a good patch with it, you've inspired me to give it real chance and try some of your suggestions. I would love to get that real Matchless tone from the Axe. It's just about my favorite.

Can you post a clip?
Click to expand...

Clip here: Melancon Custom Artist, WCR SR/SR/Goodwood (stuck to the SR's on this clip) direct to Axe-FX via digital input, direct to Reaper, ripped down.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1872996/MelCAMatchless.mp3
 
Scott Peterson said:
kev said:
I built an amp based on the DC30 and it sounds really good. Thick yet chimey. When I checked out the sim in the Axe I thought it sounded nothing like what I know and have heard of the Matchless sound. I haven't spent much time with it because I figured it was just a crappy amp sim and there were others to get to know.

Scott, seeing that you have a lot of experience with Matchless and feel you got a good patch with it, you've inspired me to give it real chance and try some of your suggestions. I would love to get that real Matchless tone from the Axe. It's just about my favorite.

Can you post a clip?
Click to expand...

Clip here: Melancon Custom Artist, WCR SR/SR/Goodwood (stuck to the SR's on this clip) direct to Axe-FX via digital input, direct to Reaper, ripped down.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1872996/MelCAMatchless.mp3
Click to expand...

That is a gorgeous clean sound! I was only following this thread from a technical curiosity more than anything else, as i'm unfamiliar with matchless amps. but now i have to give this a try via Scott's guidelines.
 
That's way closer than what the default is. I like it a little more chimey on top but I'll play with it tonight and see where I can get. Thanks for the clip and setting suggestions.
 
+ 1 on Scott's tip

I was even able to dial in a pretty convincing lead patch from Boutique 2 using that technique. The icing on the cake (for me) is to have a strat that has a tone control dedicated to the bridge pickup - helps polish off any sharp edges. Good stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom