Any word on the FM3 getting the Axe III's Pitch Block?

I expect the Fractal team will find a way to shoehorn it in, they've just had other priorities.

That being said, for gigging players, I would wager the Virtual Capo is far more important than having 269 different amps available. I'd take the 50 most commonly used amps and a Virtual Capo all day.

Unfortunately, the chip architecture is such that reducing the number of amps wouldn't really have much of an effect on the ability of the unit to use the improved Virtual Capo algorithm.

Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure the Fractal team has heard from its users how important this is to us players, and will do everything they can to make it happen. It's not really an "optional" function in today's gigging environment.
 
jclemensfl said:
Unfortunately, the chip architecture is such that reducing the number of amps wouldn't really have much of an effect on the ability of the unit to use the improved Virtual Capo algorithm.
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Reducing the number of amps would have zero effect on the processor because they're stored as data in memory. All 269 amps aren't simultaneously loaded into the RAM and being processed by the CPU. It's just one at a time, so if you had 1 amp or 1,000 amps, it wouldn't free up a single CPU cycle for other effects.
 
bdrepko said:
I cant wait to ditch the Drop!
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Yeah, my band played in Eb for the longest time but once the VC was improved, I insisted we tune to standard pitch and only drop it for the songs that were recorded in half-step down. We also tune a full step down or more on a couple songs. I love that I can rely on the Axe's pitch shifting. It's still not perfect, but in a band context it's perfectly fine. I just found the FM3's to be just a bit too much latency (as was the Axe's before the update) so I had to sell it shortly after I got it when it first came out. But I've got my eye on it again, now that the QC has failed to live up to the hype (for LOTS of reasons, not just the pitch shifting).
 
Poparad said:
Reducing the number of amps would have zero effect on the processor because they're stored as data in memory. All 269 amps aren't simultaneously loaded into the RAM and being processed by the CPU. It's just one at a time, so if you had 1 amp or 1,000 amps, it wouldn't free up a single CPU cycle for other effects.
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Correct. You said it with more detail than I did.
 
decreebass said:
Hi, all.

Has there been any scuttlebutt about if/when the FM3 will get the Axe III's improved pitch block?

I bought the FM3 when it was first released but ended up selling it immediately. I'm an Axe III owner and was hoping it'd be a mini/travel version, but I found it was far too underpowered for my presets and the pitch block - specifically the virtual capo - wasn't up to snuff compared to the Axe III. I've since started making more - but simpler - presets, so my preset complexity is nowhere near what it was. For this reason, I think the FM3 might be perfect now.

In any case, I recently picked up the Quad Cortex but am severely disappointed. It has NOTHING compared to the Axe Fx III. I know it's still in its infancy, but it'll be many years before it's even a fraction as functional as Fractal gear. I'm planning to return it or sell it most likely, and my eyes have once again come back to the FM3.

But I NEED the improved pitch block. It's a deal-breaker to not have it. I was hoping that a year later, things would be night and day, but I haven't seen any updates about the Pitch Block. Has there been a good explanation why it hasn't come yet? Is the improved version just so much more DSP intensive that it'll NEVER come to the FM3?

Thanks, all!
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They are working on the pitch block. I’ve had my fm3 for two days and I didn’t expect to throw a bunch of blocks in there and it’s hard coming from even the axe2 could have more blocks but they aren’t porting cycnus or anything to it for that matter.

I thought about saving for a quad cortex a week ago prior to buying the 3 but couldn’t justify that price on unproven gear that’s based on over priced plugins. I’m going to wait and see if it’s just vapor ware and hype. I’ll be very disappointed in Rabea and others for acting like it’s the savior and answer to all our prayers.
 
Exitetard said:
They are working on the pitch block. I’ve had my fm3 for two days and I didn’t expect to throw a bunch of blocks in there and it’s hard coming from even the axe2 could have more blocks but they aren’t porting cycnus or anything to it for that matter.

I thought about saving for a quad cortex a week ago prior to buying the 3 but couldn’t justify that price on unproven gear that’s based on over priced plugins. I’m going to wait and see if it’s just vapor ware and hype. I’ll be very disappointed in Rabea and others for acting like it’s the savior and answer to all our prayers.
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You know, it's a great little piece of kit for sitting in front of your computer recording tracks into Logic, but my complaint is that it's not a fraction of the road-ready that the FAS gear is. MIDI is lacking, utilities and customization are lacking, deep editing is non-existent (which is fine for some) - basically, it's not ready to leave the nest just yet. i get that Rabea and the guys were thrilled with it by demoing it in their studios, but try integrating it into a fully automated rig for 4 hours worth of music in a bunch of different styles, tunings, etc., and you'll start to see its limitations.

Kind of a bummer to hear the price of the FM3 just jumped up $100, but it's whatevs. I'm still gonna buy as soon as we have confirmation that the Axe III's pitch block is coming and it's not going to use half the DSP lol!
 
decreebass said:
You know, it's a great little piece of kit for sitting in front of your computer recording tracks into Logic, but my complaint is that it's not a fraction of the road-ready that the FAS gear is. MIDI is lacking, utilities and customization are lacking, deep editing is non-existent (which is fine for some) - basically, it's not ready to leave the nest just yet. i get that Rabea and the guys were thrilled with it by demoing it in their studios, but try integrating it into a fully automated rig for 4 hours worth of music in a bunch of different styles, tunings, etc., and you'll start to see its limitations.

Kind of a bummer to hear the price of the FM3 just jumped up $100, but it's whatevs. I'm still gonna buy as soon as we have confirmation that the Axe III's pitch block is coming and it's not going to use half the DSP lol!
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Yeah I wondering about it’s versatility and fm3 can’t be beat In that department imo. Funny you mention the price going up I looked randomly and it was 999$ I didn’t know it was ever more but I’m glad I got in when I did.
They don’t seem to announce a lot of deals like that. They might exist but you wouldn’t know it.
 
I don't think it's gone up yet, but they just posted on TGP that they will be raising the cost of it and the Axe III due to global issues (shortages, increased this and that, etc.).
 
decreebass said:
You know, it's a great little piece of kit for sitting in front of your computer recording tracks into Logic, but my complaint is that it's not a fraction of the road-ready that the FAS gear is. MIDI is lacking, utilities and customization are lacking, deep editing is non-existent (which is fine for some) - basically, it's not ready to leave the nest just yet. i get that Rabea and the guys were thrilled with it by demoing it in their studios, but try integrating it into a fully automated rig for 4 hours worth of music in a bunch of different styles, tunings, etc., and you'll start to see its limitations.

Kind of a bummer to hear the price of the FM3 just jumped up $100, but it's whatevs. I'm still gonna buy as soon as we have confirmation that the Axe III's pitch block is coming and it's not going to use half the DSP lol!
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IMO people make too big deal about Fractal's deep editing capabilities. There are some really great features but to me they are things like modifiers, ducking, multiple global EQs, channels etc. rather than being able to play amp or pedal designer.

I currently own a FM3, Helix Floor and Quad Cortex. Did not intend for this to happen but got a decent deal on a used FM3 while waiting for the QC so I wanted to give it a fair try after being away from Fractal for several years.

I've had a Quad Cortex for a whopping two days now and agree that it is severely limited in its assortment of fx and power user features but what is there does work well and sounds good to my ears. The capturing feature is impressive too. QC is overall very easy to use and the only extra you need to go with it is an expression pedal. I think in about a year or two it will be an excellent piece of gear as they start to catch up with Fractal and Line6 in features.

For the things you described I think nothing short of the Axe-Fx 3 would do. It's made exactly for the power user. The FM3 is still more limited and needs at least a good MIDI controller or FC unit to go with it. But for most people it's more than enough in its capabilities and so is the QC. For FAS gear my complaint has always been its UI and overall user experience when using it from the hardware itself. Axe-Edit is great but I'm still skeptical if I will see any significant progress on the hardware UI front until Fractal releases an Axe-Fx 4.

The Line6 Helix is still probably my favorite overall package of the current modelers because it's easier to use than Fractal while having less shortcomings in features than QC. If my biggest complaint about my Helix Floor is its size then that's pretty good.
 
laxu said:
The FM3 ... needs at least a good MIDI controller or FC unit to go with it.
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See, when I had my FM3 briefly, I felt that the way that the footswitches operate, I was fine getting around with just 3. And this was BEFORE I started to automate all my preset switching & scene switching (sometimes I need a different default scene when the preset loads, so MIDI takes care of that). These days, during a song I may hit only one or two switches - that's it. I even have it go to a blank preset when it's just a keyboard song with no guitar, so I don't even need to worry about muting it manually.

I agree. It's doubtful we'll see a hardware UI improvement. I don't mind it now that I've gotten to know where most utilities and options are, and I never deep edit in a live setting, so I don't need to worry about trying to find the cab's particular speaker impedance curve or whatever. So, that said, I legitimately think the FM3 will be a perfect backup/stand-in for my Axe Fx III if just this ONE little issue were addressed. Heck; I'm even thinking of pulling the trigger on another FM3 anyway, hoping that it will eventually get the block. I may find that I can live with the FM3's current pitch shifter as-is. Even though it may not yet be the Axe III's, it may have improved since last year around this time. I haven't had a chance to dig through all the release notes since last April.
 
decreebass said:
Yep. The minute it's announced, I'm buying. It's just too crucial in my Axe Fx III rig to live without in a cover band.
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Is the new pitch block so much improved? Like night and day? I haven’t compared them side by side.
 
la noise said:
Dang... and I was just about to start a thread about how much I love the deep-editing
capabilities. :)

I especially love how useful they are in sculpting and shaping tones. Almost like the The devil
really may be in the deep-editing details after all. ;)
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I love them as much as the next guy as they let me play amp designer but it's questionable if I am actually getting better tones than from something that doesn't have them.

decreebass said:
I agree. It's doubtful we'll see a hardware UI improvement.
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For the record I am not asking to see a huge overhaul or anything but I would like to see small improvements in a lot of places. I've posted several threads on the wishlist forums as it is and others have very good suggestions too. I get that they have their hands full with 3.03 and Cygnus port but I hope they eventually get there for other stuff too, including the pitch block.

Historically after nearly 10 years of using them I've just found Fractal has been bad at improving the user experience within a devices lifetime and instead put out yet another modeling improvement for an already excellent sounding unit. Which is welcome of course but should not be the only thing that changes. Sometimes it feels like nobody but Cliff is allowed to touch the thing when the other areas see so little progress. I mean it doesn't require using the hardware for long to think that something as simple as "go to previous block" would be a really useful feature as you once again spam Edit to cycle through irrelevant blocks to get to the one you want because you weren't in the layout screen first. I also miss the X/Y shortcut buttons of the Axe-Fx 2 that let me go to amp or cab block easily.
 
laxu said:
I love them as much as the next guy as they let me play amp designer but it's questionable if I am actually getting better tones than from something that doesn't have them.
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That's the thing, though; is you likely won't get a better SOUND out of it - I mean, you might - but the big deal to me with the deep editing is to get a better FEEL. I don't think adjusting the Variac has too big of an impact on tone, but it makes the feel just where I like it; that, combined with the input/output dynamics makes a world of difference. I suspect this is only possible because of how Cliff designs the thing; I don't think NDSP or Line 6 would even be able to implement some of the parameters that FAS can because they don't do component level modeling.
 
Bodde said:
Is the new pitch block so much improved? Like night and day? I haven’t compared them side by side.
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Yes; well, maybe not night and day, but maybe closer to night and 5 AM. It was dramatic enough for me that I could use it with the band with enough confidence that we started tuning to standard pitch and I could just drop it a half step in the Axe Fx III for the songs that need it. The original pitch block (currently on the FM3) was okay, but the new one is much better.
 
laxu said:
For the record I am not asking to see a huge overhaul or anything but I would like to see small improvements in a lot of places. I've posted several threads on the wishlist forums as it is and others have very good suggestions too. I get that they have their hands full with 3.03 and Cygnus port but I hope they eventually get there for other stuff too, including the pitch block.

Historically after nearly 10 years of using them I've just found Fractal has been bad at improving the user experience within a devices lifetime and instead put out yet another modeling improvement for an already excellent sounding unit. Which is welcome of course but should not be the only thing that changes.
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This is the sound vs. usability debate, and I agree with you. Not that we don't appreciate Fractal's hard word in bringing Cygnus to the community, or all the other modeling improvements they make.
But for the gigging musician, usability improvements are more important, IMO. And since that's the main reason for the FM3 existing (not to say you can't use it in a studio or exclusively at home), the hope is that the team continues to turn out features requested or imagined that make the experience of using the unit easier and additional functionality is a focus. Its amazing what they have produced so far.
 
decreebass said:
That's the thing, though; is you likely won't get a better SOUND out of it - I mean, you might - but the big deal to me with the deep editing is to get a better FEEL. I don't think adjusting the Variac has too big of an impact on tone, but it makes the feel just where I like it; that, combined with the input/output dynamics makes a world of difference. I suspect this is only possible because of how Cliff designs the thing; I don't think NDSP or Line 6 would even be able to implement some of the parameters that FAS can because they don't do component level modeling.
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That's definitely a good point. Most of the time I like the feel of the amp just fine but might want to change its sound a bit to my tastes beyond what the authentic controls let you do. For that even a graphic or parametric EQ is often enough.

I agree that Line6 or NeuralDSP won't ever offer FAS level of control. Line6 does do component level modeling and offers some advanced settings like bias, bias excursion, sag, ripple etc. but just a tiny subset compared to Fractal. For my uses this is enough to adjust the feel of the amp models. Switchable speaker impedance curves would be a nice addition though.

NeuralDSP especially will be unlikely to even let you disable the poweramp sim on the amp models and might instead offer separate models of preamps on amps that have an fx loop. Their amp modeling is probably just a more complex version of their capture tech rather than the component modeling that Fractal does. To my ears the factory captures and amp models sound very much the same but the amp models just offer all the controls the real thing has.

Modeling a full amp model with all knobs and switches is probably a pretty extensive process because just making a handful of captures of one channel on my Bogner took me a good while. I can say that the NeuralDSP capture tech works very, very well whether run into cab sims or a poweramp and guitar cab.
 
laxu said:
For FAS gear my complaint has always been its UI and overall user experience when using it from the hardware itself. Axe-Edit is great but I'm still skeptical if I will see any significant progress on the hardware UI front until Fractal releases an Axe-Fx 4.
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I suspect this is a bit like the learning style issue in education.

I find the Fractal on-device interface to be intuitive and quite good. I have (and like) the Line6 HX Stomp as a grab-n-go and backup device, but I rather dislike the interface in comparison to the FM3. Then, if you factor in the computer editors, I'd say that Fractal is waaaaay ahead in UI design and functionality.

Also, Fractal's grid absolutely kills the weird 'dual path by CPU' approach in the Helix.

I'm not saying you're wrong....for you. Just pointing out that not everyone is on the same page.
 
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