Any gamer's here Xbox One Or PS4?

David Whittingham said:
The console game market has never operated in a way where games from one console are compatible with another. PlayStation 3 games do not work on an Xbox 360; this seems irrelevant to the issues being discussed. In the case of sharing iTunes music, sharing purchased tracks with other users is a direct violation of the agreement everyone makes with Apple. You do not have the right to redistribute purchased tracks in this way (or any way).
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My point is with music, I can enjoy that music for as long as I want. Even if Apple shuts down, there are other ways to enjoy that music. I'm glad you pointed out that they are different from games in this way, because that was exactly my point; you can't compare iTunes model to the game industry. iTunes has a sharing feature built right in. You can share with 5 other iTunes users ANYWHERE in the world. You can also "revoke" those rights individually any time you want.

I do see this as an issue, but it is little different then if Steam, Origin, or any other DRM-encumbered store goes away. I don't think Microsoft is going away or turning off Xbox One servers any time in the near future. As for developers, they weren't benefiting from the used game market anyway, and they always have the opportunity to re-package there existing titles for new systems and markets (look at gog.com for example).
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Xbox One servers WILL get shut down eventually. Take a look at the community reaction when they shut down the Xbox Live servers for the original Xbox.

I can't respond to the other points just yet because my wife literally just called while I was typing and I gotta jet.
 
David Whittingham said:
Publishers already limit what you can do with with just the game disc on both the Xbox 360 and PS3 by making some part of the game content only available when a unlock code is attached to your account. I can barely remember a AAA title that I've bought in the last couple of years that hasn't come with at least one code. Even though EA has stated they intend to end this practice, I would predict other publishers on the PS4 will continue this practice, and possibly increase the amount of content only available with unlock codes. I suspect many publishers won't bother on the Xbox One, and will simply make use of the built-in restrictions, and the options Microsoft gives them.
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Yeah, it's already being done, just that Microsoft are taking it another step further. Nothing to stop publishers from doing it on PS4 too, just via other means.



That said, I own both a 360 and a PS3. Had the Xbox first and got the PS3 a couple of years later, but the Xbox hardly gets used for anything these days. Of the new consoles, I guess I would have been looking at a PS4 to begin with and maybe an Xbox later on if there were enough decent exclusive titles. But with all this crap going on with the Xbox, unless things change, I don't imagine I'll be picking one up.

Just saw the Metal Gear Solid V video last night... holy crap. :eek:



I hope they've put a bit more quality into the engineering with the new Xbox. Before we owned one, a buddy and I borrowed a PS3 off a friend to play MGS4 when it came out. We were both laughing when we first fired it up. Dead quiet compared to the Xbox's built in hoover, and the Xbox's huge power supply isn't even inside the console.
 
GreatGreen said:
Actually, you'd be surprised. A very significant chunk of Americans not living in cities do not have reliable internet even nowadays, and it can and frequently does go out for several days at a time. That doesn't seem possible to people living in cities where the internet is mostly reliable and only goes out for a few hours at a time every now and then, but it very much is the case.

Also, soldiers on deployment do not have internet. Video game consoles, working out, reading books and watching porn are basically their only potential sources of entertainment. That might seem like a pandering "think of the children" argument at first, but it represents the fact that there are many people out there, not just soldiers, who do not and will not have internet access for long periods of time. Is Microsoft really just going to say "sorry, screw you guys" and move on with life?

And aren't consoles supposed to be specifically for when the internet goes out? I mostly play PC games myself but when my internet goes out, that's when I'm most likely to fire up the 360.

But besides all that, we shouldn't be asking ourselves why Microsoft shouldn't require something like this, we should be asking Microsoft why they would require it in the first place. Why impose such an arbitrary requirement that can only hurt legitimate paying customers while offering them no benefits in return? The answer is that Microsoft wants to turn your $60 from money spent on a physical good you own to money spent on a product you lease, for a specifically finite amount of time... that time being the moment Microsoft decides to switch off its Xbox One authentication servers, before which time Microsoft can very tightly control exactly what you can and can't do with a game, and who exactly can or can't play the game you just "bought."

Why should we put up with that?
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ok your points are valid and make a lot of sense to me. I should have thought more about this before I posted.
 
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Not quite the same thing. Microsoft is disabling game trading by default. It's up to the publishers to enable it if they wish.

Sony is saying that if the publisher wants to have some sort of DRM scheme they can, such as online passes, one-time codes for extra content, DLC, etc. Just like my 360 copy of SSX last year had an online pass code to enable multiplayer (which EA has already dropped). That's different from saying that game-trading is disabled by default, even single-player games, unless the publisher opts-in.
 
dwg115 said:
ok your points are valid and make a lot of sense to me. I should have thought more about this before I posted.
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Can it...

wow, I mean...

eyes, don't fail me now. Have I really just witnessed somebody on the internet say that? Seriously, this calls for an epic soundtrack, with angelic choirs and a glint of light reflecting of the post, signifying that all hope is, indeed, not lost.

I mean that without the slightest sarcasm towards you, dwg115. But it kinda shows the sad state of affairs I consider the world to be in, when reading such an innocent little statement on a public forum prompts me to react in this way.

On topic, I am mainly a PC gamer who bought an Xbox360 to play GTAIV on a big screen. I hate playing shooters with a pad. Fighting games, now that's another story, but for some time I used the XBox extensively to play streaming movies, HD-DVDs (bargains were to be had after the death of that platform around 2008-9) and try game demos. I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool fanboy of any console system, I have a soft spot for Nintendo's uncomplicatedness and genuinely great games. Halo, while arguably the killer application for the Xbox (apart from GoW) never particularly grabbed me, sorry to say. It's still time for Microsoft to change the game, and if they ever make the One obsolete in terms of switchnig off their servers, I'm sure they're going to release a firmware upgrade that enables offline play. If the hardware survives that long anyway...

But as it looks today, Sony has this one under wraps, the only question is how good their calculation is this time around, remember, they lost heaps of money on the PS3.

Still, I'm not in the market for a new console anyway and will wait for at least xmas 2014 if I consider getting anything new. Time to play is not exactly in abundance here, and I'm more than covered for games on the PC. For casual stuff to play with my gf, the Wii still seems the better choice (save for the occasional "who's-going-to-do-the-dishes-Tekken-best-of-five" match) so I'm going to take it easy and wait how things pan out.

So long
Andreas aka Ace
 
One thing on the used game trading issue: It's quite common for developers in the music software world to ask a small fee if you want to transfer a license to a new user. Most devs keep this kinda sensible, and we're talking software in the 150,- to 500,- $ and up range. If the transfer fee is small enough, in relation to the full price, I see this as a totally viable solution. Of course, from the consumer standpoint, it's bad, but while it may be true that "games these days don't have the storytelling and replay value as games 20 years ago had", it might also have to do with the fact that a huge industry has spawned, churning out blockbuster titles by the binful, and 20 years ago there just wasn't that much choice, so you had to stick with those games you had and loved.

I feel I'm going off on a tangent, so I'm going to stop here, I'd have more to say about how this ecosystem (or my perception of it has changed), but I'll stick with the fact that I don't see a transfer fee as necessarily a bad thing, if it stays within reason.

so long
Andreas aka Ace
 
I can see the appeal for a lot of people of what the XBox offers for those extra $100, but the restrictions and terms you have to comply with in order to use the unit is the nail of their coffin.....

PS4 on the other side played the cards the right way and gave the gamers exactly what they wanted, even with a console design thats as ugly as ever, it does not matter, it will sell like the most delicious hot cakes ever! and if i have some money left after i buy the Axe Fx II i will surely get one my self.
 
Well after watching a video today i'm torn between buying an xbox one or an Axe fx II.
if i don't buy the xbox one one i'll only need at about 50% for the axe. Ahhhh Decisions Decisions...
 
iaresee said:
Truthfully I'll probably end up owning both. I own a 360, a PS3 and a Wii now -- so I figure that trend will continue. But I'll buy the XBox One first because I really only play Halo. A long time ago I used to play Halo AND the Clancy series' like Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell. But I'm old, with two little boys, and work and family and whatnot and I have such limited time to learn new games so I play what I know and like and that happens to be Halo.

All of the restrictions on the one bother me at a values level, but at a practical level I don't care. I don't trade or resell games. I have consistent internet access. My kids already think Kinect is fun so what ever. I suspect Microsoft is banking on there being a good swath of customers out there like me.

Really, I only bought the PS3 because I wanted a Blu-Ray player/DLNA streaming solution. My kids play Star Wars Lego on it, a little Sonic Racing and that's it. Generally they stick to the Wii. The PS3 is a glorified Netflix/Hulu/Plex streaming device for us. The few PS3-based games I tried weren't to my liking.
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Well after the stupidity of what the Microsoft execs had to say about "just get a 360 if you went to play offline", I think that will turn most gamers away.(Read the post or better yet watch the video below, I could not support a company that basically tells ME as a consumer to "deal with it" but that is EXACTLY what Microsoft has done!)

Watch the video in the attached link if you don't believe me. It speaks VOLUMES about the delusional way Microsoft thinks it is going to force this down customers throats.

OK now Microsoft is basically saying to thier customers....if you don't like the restristions in the xbox one ....we already have a console that doesn't require an internet connection...it is called the xbox 360! Forget the fact that it is ancient history in hardware...or the fact that games will not be made for it anymore once the new generation of consoles come out.

WOW! I simply cannot believe the STUPIDITY of Microsoft at this point.

Instead of backing down, they are firmly going with this stance of restrictions and if consumers don't like it? Then fine, they can keep technology from years ago and be happy with that.

Well how about this Microsoft....why don't those same people save you all the time and trouble of making a new console in the first place and just buy your copmpetitor's product the PS4? That way they have CURRENT GENERATION hardware along with no idiotic DRM or restrictions YOU Microsoft are trying to get them to adopt? Makes much more sense. Which is what will probably happen since you went and commited corporate suicide with your idiotic "take it or leave it" attitude.

LINK:
Video: Xbox boss issues worst possible response to Xbox One critics

David Whittingham said:
And Sony are already back-pedalling there supposed unequivocal support of used games (which is what media outlets have been incorrectly reporting) to restate that they're doing exactly what they did this generation - Sony's Jack Tretton says publishers can enforce DRM (update) | The Verge
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They are not backpedaling at all! They are saying that a publisher can do with their games on the PS4 what IT DID ON THE PS3! Get your facts straight.
 
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If Sony or Microsoft either one have policies that are more successful and profitable, the other will follow the same path. The hardware - 8 core processor, 8 gig ram, hard drive, net connection, custom gpu put the hardware almost in the same ballpark ability wise.
I'm sure Microsoft knows how many 360's are online and that's probably what they chose the online thing. I hope they change this soon thou.
Also about used games, I can understand that if a game is beat in 3 days and traded in on a new game and resold as used within a week of its release how that can hurt the developer. If it is sold as used a year later it doesn't really matter.

Until we see the new hardware and policies in effect everything is speculation at this point and I consider both systems equal. My opinion may drastically change in a few months though :)
 
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Well if Microsoft sticks to the "take it or leave it" stance in that video, I think I will simply leave it! And I do not consider both systems equal when one clearly wants to impliment so many restrictions on their customers. Of which I will not be one.

You guys just HAVE TO SEE THIS VIDEO!

It has gone viral on youtube ...it is a microsoft exec telling people to use the xbox 360 if they do not have an internet connection. It is hilarious! I LOVE the horns at the end!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC8FbgGnd0
 
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webe123 said:
Well if Microsoft sticks to the "take it or leave it" stance in that video, I think I will simply leave it! And I do not consider both systems equal when one clearly wants to impliment so many restrictions on their customers. Of which I will not be one.

You guys just HAVE TO SEE THIS VIDEO!

It has gone viral on youtube ...it is a microsoft exec telling people to use the xbox 360 if they do not have an internet connection. It is hilarious! I LOVE the horns at the end!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC8FbgGnd0
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Omg. Wow.
 
David Whittingham said:
As for Kinect privacy, where's the outrage for the existing Kinect and PS Eye, cameras in your smartphone/laptop/tablet. These aren't any more or less 'hackable'. Arguably, because of the locked down nature of the Xbox operating environment, it's likely to be far more secure than your average PC webcam.
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Fair enough. I wasn't really concerned with the privacy aspect, myself. It's just that I'd rather not pay for Kinect or be forced to use it (I'd expect MS to push it's incorporation on developers to set XBox apart from the PS4).

On second thought, I just might get the "one" for Halo alone. :D Though It would suck to want to re-play through the series in 10 years to find out the One isn't compatible with whatever protocol the internet itself uses at that point. Maybe MS will approve a 5 year amnesty on your old games or something.

PS: Now the Illumiroom concept is freakin' sweet.
 
webe123 said:
They are not backpedaling at all! They are saying that a publisher can do with their games on the PS4 what IT DID ON THE PS3! Get your facts straight.
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My facts are straight, but perhaps my phrasing was at fault. What I was trying to convey (with the 'supposed unequivocal support' bit) was that they are having to re-state their position because the media/public at large can't get their facts straight. Sony said right in the press event that the disc-game model on the PS4 will work the same as the PS3, but many media outlets and the public at large seemed to, at least to me, forget in that moment the fairly serious restrictions publishers have put on console games this generation (on both Xbox 360 and PS3) using unlock codes.

And before anyone says that this is limited to the multi-player portions of games, I've got a growing collection of single player focussed games that have come with these unlock codes that limit increasingly significant portions of the single player experience.
 
David Whittingham said:
My facts are straight, but perhaps my phrasing was at fault. What I was trying to convey (with the 'supposed unequivocal support' bit) was that they are having to re-state their position because the media/public at large can't get their facts straight. Sony said right in the press event that the disc-game model on the PS4 will work the same as the PS3, but many media outlets and the public at large seemed to, at least to me, forget in that moment the fairly serious restrictions publishers have put on console games this generation (on both Xbox 360 and PS3) using unlock codes.

And before anyone says that this is limited to the multi-player portions of games, I've got a growing collection of single player focussed games that have come with these unlock codes that limit increasingly significant portions of the single player experience.
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You're saying that publishers can implement their own DRM, just like they've been able to do for the past thirty years. In the 80s they were using code-wheels, manuals, etc. to make sure players were playing games they purchased.

BTW, read the update to the article you posted. Sony is absolutely not going to prevent you from loaning games or buying/selling used ones. If the publisher wants to, for instance, give an unlock code with new games that enable special DLC, online capabilities, they certainly can, just like they can now. It's a non-issue.
 
Just embrace the tech & buy both machines. There are bound to be exclusives on either console that you'll enjoy. Whoever doesn't have an "always on" internet connection in 2013 need to move to a new city or a new job......
 
Sidivan said:
You can share with 5 other iTunes users ANYWHERE in the world. You can also "revoke" those rights individually any time you want.
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Beg your pardon? How have I missed this for all this time being an iTunes user? Do you refer to the home network sharing? I'd imagine you have to setup a VPN for that? Or am I really monumentally behind the curve on this?

so long
Andreas aka Ace
 
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