Any advice/guidance for setting volume levels across presets?

David777

Member
I'm struggling more than I probably should with setting the volumes on my presets so that when I go from one preset to another during a song the volumes are set to where I need them - and then on to the next song using additional/other presets.

Any advice for this?
 
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There's the preset levelling tool in Axe-Edit which uses meters for precise adjustments

Or for on the fly tweaks assign the the preset +/- db utility to 2 footswitches and adjust to taste.
 
One thing I didn't know is that clean needs to be a LOT louder to sound similar to overdriven sounds. I was using preset levelling tool to match output, but then losing clean in the mix! Also if you're switching cabs, the presets may actually be as 'physically' loud but the different frequencies are throwing you. Like if I push the little boost button on my strat that bring in the neck+bridge pickups, my bandmate complains I've disappeared. Same volume (if anything louder) but the change in frequency throws your brain out. So I try to keep the same basic EQ profile between scenes (I only use one preset). I even find if I switch from say a fairly crisp double verb crunch, to a 5150, it sounds like it's dropped volume even though it's actually louder, because the added lows are somehow tricking my brain into thinking the highs are gone.
 
One thing I didn't know is that clean needs to be a LOT louder to sound similar to overdriven sounds. I was using preset levelling tool to match output, but then losing clean in the mix! Also if you're switching cabs, the presets may actually be as 'physically' loud but the different frequencies are throwing you. Like if I push the little boost button on my strat that bring in the neck+bridge pickups, my bandmate complains I've disappeared. Same volume (if anything louder) but the change in frequency throws your brain out. So I try to keep the same basic EQ profile between scenes (I only use one preset). I even find if I switch from say a fairly crisp double verb crunch, to a 5150, it sounds like it's dropped volume even though it's actually louder, because the added lows are somehow tricking my brain into thinking the highs are gone.

On the contrary...

Cleans retain their dynamic character at low and high volume levels, while higher gain tones are compressed. When dialing in / leveling at low volume levels, this usually translates into having to turn up the distorted sounds louder than you'd think.

A second thing: never use palm mutes or power chords to level the output. The bass response from those messes everything up. Use chords on the higher strings instead.
 
Add a looper before the amp and loop the same passage into your DAW. Use a loudness meter and match LUFS between patches.
 
I have one of these in my studio and use it only as a reference. It's got a large display that is easy to see at a glance. I start with the Preset Leveling Tool and use my ears for the reast. I like to play around 90 with a recording and see how I am cutting through the mix. I can always adjust up or down as needed with my output levels. I'll let the FOH guy do his thing.
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I'm struggling more than I probably should with setting the volumes on my presets so that when I go from one preset to another during a song the volumes are set to where I need them - and then on to the next song using additional/other presets.

Any advice for this?
It’s not really that hard, it just takes practice with the Preset Leveling tool.

Start by reading section 7 in the manual, and Preset levels in the Wiki.

Here’s my process and how I think about it. It's very subjective, and other people's mileage might vary:
  • Turn up the volume of the system to about 90 dB, which is comfortably loud. This counters the Fletcher-Munson effect.
  • Open the Preset Leveling tool, CMD+L on a macOS system, and move the pop-up window somewhere to see both it and the main window easily.
  • Plug in a guitar, preferably one with medium-output pickups. I often use a PRS Studio which has an SSH configuration of two single-coil-like humbuckers and a medium output, full-size bridge humbucker, or something with an HSH combination. This is for flexibility in both sound and output when checking for Strat and Humbucking sounds. If you only use one guitar, or one guitar type then use the one that sits in the middle output-wise. Also, note that this process isn't the same as adjusting the distortion or drive characteristics of an amp, it's for the volume as the signal moves through the entire chain of blocks. Adjusting for drive and distortion should have already happened and we should be aware of how those are affected by the guitar's output and have figured out how to compensate as we switch guitars; We're only worried about the overall volume of the scenes and how they combine to make the preset, and how that preset fits into the other presets around them.
  • Switch to the first preset being tested and to its cleanest scene, turn down the preset’s amp level a bit and hit a chord easily, and watch to see where the meters say it landed on the dB meters. I turn it down because too many times the system isn’t set right and the first try is too loud.
  • Adjust the speaker output and preset’s amp level again until the output level is still comfortably loud and the meters are just below the 0 dB line. Loop through this step, adjusting the speakers and amp level in the preset until the meters show the peak volume is about 2-3 dB above 0 then decay, then repeat strumming the chord until it’s how hard I, or an average player, would normally play. I use typical rock/blues chords that I’d play, like open E, A, D, and G, because they cover the normal guitar sounds, but for metal, jazz or country you might switch to something more idiomatic to the style of the preset and particular scene. The idea is to have the guitar outputting the same volume for each strum and cover the range of its tones for that style the preset is aimed at. Play snippets of some songs, a bit of lead, etc., watching the meter and adjusting as needed.
At this point the modeler should be comfortably loud still, the guitar should be reacting to the volume and sound a bit “chunky” - you’ll know when you feel it - and the peak of the cleans should land just above the red then almost immediately drop to 0 dB then continue to decay. Odds are good it'll bounce around 0 dB for distorted sounds due to the amp's compression, and that's OK, as long as the average is 0 dB. I give a distorted sound about two or three seconds to drop below 0 dB and reduce it if it takes longer than that, but you can figure out what works for you.

Once that’s set I switch to the next scene and adjust the amp’s output level again, to match. It’s important to listen to the volume, not bass, because they’re different, and watch the meters. Switch back and forth comparing them, adjusting until they seem to be equal power, then move on to the next scene. Repeat through the scenes, then start at the first scene and step through them all, comparing each time again. Then move to the next preset, adjusting it to the previous preset's volume then its internal scenes, on and on. Scenes that are more driven or distorted will not be as dynamic, so adjust them so they ride 0 dB; the same is true if they're heavily compressed. Tremolo, auto-wah, chorus, rotary, and others can cause the volume to change so watch their average and adjust to taste and keep them reasonable.

Take a break periodically because ear, and mental, fatigue will set in.

It's an iterative process, finding that starting level, then tweaking until the scenes flow through their volumes with no unexpected or illogical changes. Sometimes a preset can be difficult to get adjusted correctly so I'll move on and return to it later.

Play around with, and review, the factory presets, Austin Buddy's or those presets from the well-known preset folk and compare their levels as examples of what to go for.

There are some… philosophical… issues about managing and boosting the volume for solos. Some people like a scene to do that, others like having the boost on their volume pedal, and others use a solo boost switch. Whichever you use, allow for it. Don't set all scenes to the same volume if one is supposed to be boosted, set it to be 3-4 dB louder, and adjust the others accordingly using the louder scene as the baseline. If you're playing in a band, discuss what dB amount you want your solos to change to and whether it's only on stage, or stage and FOH. If it affects FOH then it's probably a good idea to tell the FOH engineer so they're not surprised and turn you down or get pissed and turn you off. Keeping that in mind…

0 dB on the meter is not the peak output the modeler can put out, nor is it immediately above that point when clipping will occur. There's a generous amount of headroom above it but I think it's better to pretend there's a little bit of headroom and not abuse that extra capacity. You can permanently damage your, or other's, ears, or your equipment by too much volume so be cautious. I'm not going to say what that level is, it's in the manual and the Wiki and is technically important to know, but for the purpose of leveling presets and scenes it's not really that germane, we just want consistent sound levels.

Learn the difference between single dB steps and 3 dB because knowing how much difference there is makes adjusting the output go faster. For setting levels, I remember that 1dB is basically the smallest amount that experienced people can detect in reasonably complex sound. 3 dB is what most inexperienced people can detect, and is what I target when I switch in a solo boost. Sometimes, depending on the scene, I'll use 4 dB, but I've found that in a loud live situation 4 dB seems a bit more than what I want. YMMV. Your band's mileage might vary. Your band's FOH person might vary too. Discuss it amongst yourselves.

It's probably good to kinda-know how a change in dB affects the amplifiers too, if you don't already know. It's not intuitive unless you're an engineer.

Regarding the Master Volume in the Amp block: Newcomers to the modeler think it behaves like the master volume on an amp. It doesn't. It's a whole different subject and deserves some time spent reading about what it does, but for adjusting levels it shouldn't be touched. Use the Amp Block's Level control, use the Out block's Level control, or use the post-effects Compressor's Level control if there is one, but don't adjust the Master Volume.

Regarding headphones vs. speakers for leveling: We run a very quiet house so I use headphones almost exclusively. I have to rely on the meters and listen closely to the actual overall power/volume of the sound and be aware of the highs vs. lows when presets switch. It gets tiring and I bounce back and forth between scenes and presets a lot listening, but it seems to work pretty well and translates very well when I switch to my speakers. I also compare the sound of my guitar through the headphones to what it sounds like when I'm live and go for that same "feel", which again, is comfortably loud. I use good quality headphones, but it's not the frequency response that's important, it's concentrating on the output volume and using my eyes and ears.

Hopefully that helps.
 
On the contrary...

Cleans retain their dynamic character at low and high volume levels, while higher gain tones are compressed. When dialing in / leveling at low volume levels, this usually translates into having to turn up the distorted sounds louder than you'd think.

A second thing: never use palm mutes or power chords to level the output. The bass response from those messes everything up. Use chords on the higher strings instead.
Interesting! I’ll have to have another listen, perhaps there are other forces at play in my case.
 
Interesting! I’ll have to have another listen, perhaps there are other forces at play in my case.
It can be deceiving to the ears (and to the eyes watching meters). Flip back and forth a lot while concentrating on the volume while strumming.
 
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