Another sidechain compression question

Bidding War

Bidding War

Inspired
Yo!

I've been digging the sidechain comp feature quite a bit. I am sending a kick from ableton live via an analog out of the RME UFX into the axe input 2. My ?, and I understand this all comes down to a matter of taste and trial and error, but does anyone have a good feel/mathematical idea of what the attack and release should be set for maximum pump at 128 bpm? I have linked a track below where you can hear what I am going for with ebowed guitars using ableton's comp. Ideally, I'd like to use the axe for this feature as a matter of convenience and simplicity with the mfc101. I realize most of you probably don't use sidechaining but I'd figured I'd ask. Thanks for any ideas!

maximum pump hits around 1:27



peace,
-a
 
Many, including myself will tell you to adjust it by ear. However having a good starting point is not too shabby either. Based on the track you provided. The attack sounds immediate so set the attack time to 0. The release seems to last two thirds of a beat from the downbeat. The formula is simple.

Release time (ms) = 60/(tempo)*(release interval factor)*1000

Tempo in BPM and release interval factor being the fraction of a beat you want the swell to occur. In this case 2/3 or around 0.66.

60/128*0.66*1000=309.3ms

Hope this helps.
 
thanks! I'll give it a try later today but it seems the math still needs to be adjusted...I wonder how hard it would be to add 1/4,1/8,1/16 etc as a feature of the release set to whatever the bpm is. I know some software compressors work this way...eg waves etc.
 
I compose a lot of EDM music myself and rely heavily on sidechaining. For 'maximum' pump, it's still personal preference. I prefer instant attack and a short release, something like 100ms at 140 BPM. Depends on style.

There are a ton of BPM -> ms calculator tools out there to help determine note intervals for use with all kinds of effect VSTs that don't sync to DAW nicely... one of which I scripted on my EDM production site here:
Etudica Delay and Frequencies Calculator

Also, another trick to try out for EDM genres is not use the actual kick audio to trigger the sidechain. Instead, try making a separate instrument track that matches your kick patterns (or just copy your kick midi track) and change the instrument to a percussion sound with minimal decay, such as a short clap or woodblock (think metronome). Then, change bus out to "none" on this new signal track to hide it from the stereo mix. Use this new 'hidden" midi track to signal sidechain effects. I find this helpful when using certain kicks with inherent reverb, long decay, or other effects that can exaggerate the sidechain compression release even further.

Now, if you don't want an in-your-face sidechain compression, there are some plugins that will allow you to easily sidechain only certain frequencies. In other words, you could sidechain a synth and set your cutoffs so that only frequencies under a certain Hz will be affected by the compression. I like to use Vengeance Multiband Sidechain2 for this sort of compression.

Just with compression sidechains, the possibilities are endless. It can get pretty complex sometimes when you are ducking a synth which is also ducking a reverse reverb send from another synth, which is gating something else... you get the idea.

Hope that helps a bit.
 
Bidding War said:
thanks! I'll give it a try later today but it seems the math still needs to be adjusted...I wonder how hard it would be to add 1/4,1/8,1/16 etc as a feature of the release set to whatever the bpm is. I know some software compressors work this way...eg waves etc.
Click to expand...

The math is not that much more intricate for this functionality. The note length (1/4,1/8,etc) as well as the time signature. Simply multiply the previous formula I showed you with the bottom number of the time signature and also the note value.

Release Time (ms) = 60/(tempo)*(release interval factor)*1000*(bottom # of time signature)*(note length)

Example with 128 bpm in 4/4 time sig with 1/8th note pumping.

60/128*0.66*1000*4*1/8 = 155 ms

Same example with quarter notes.

60/128*0.66*1000*4*1/4 = 309 ms (same as before)

That should get you there.
 
Great suggestions, I am going to do some work on this and will report back. I also do some stuff at 140 so that def helps...but most of my electro/bass stuff is around 128.
 
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