Wish "Analog-Style Knob" Option for Performance Page(s)

Ugly Bunny

Ugly Bunny

Power User
So this could be implemented all over the place or just certain areas, but in coming up with this, I was thinking more about specifically for Performance Pages (to go in conjunction with my other wish for a Per-Scene Performance page).

The wish is this: Create an option to have the knobs on Performance Pages to act as analog knobs; meaning, a much shorter throw to go from min to max. So, rather than turning the knob half a dozen times (depending on how fast you turn the knobs), you would only need to turn the knob around 300 degrees to go from min to max or vice versa. This would make playing with analog delays and stuff a lot more authentic for performances or if one simply doesn't need the granularity the default behaviour offers. This mode would remove the relative granularity of the speed you twist (meaning, it wouldn't matter if you twisted slow or fast, since it's a direct and limited throw of the pot).

A feature of turning on 'Analog-Mode Knobs' (again, either just in a Performance Page or elsewhere) could even turn off the numeric value - this would encourage people to adjust using their ears rather than their eyes. The position marker could still be there and go from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock or whatever.

I don't know if this is even possible with the tech, but I think it'd be neat to have it as an option. Obviously, we wouldn't "feel" it when it hits the min or max, but it would "feel" more natural twisting the feedback of a delay if twisting the knob behaved more like it would in the analog world.
 
If possible, this would be a good addition for front panel edits. Perhaps an adjustable knob speed parameter in the global settings maybe. Even better if we could have both coarse and fine speeds with the use of a button modifier. Turning the knob would normally give you the coarse speed and then maybe something like holding down Enter while turning would give you the fine speed, similar to how the mouse modifiers work on the knobs in Axe Edit for fine control using the Alt or Shift key or which ever it is. The opposite would be fine too with fine being normal and coarse being the button held speed.
 
It's probably possible to add acceleration to the knob's behavior, so that a fast spin jumps farther than a slow one. That allows us to get into the ballpark more quickly, then still have the ability to fine-tune once we're near the desired setting.

mr_fender said:
If possible, this would be a good addition for front panel edits. Perhaps an adjustable knob speed parameter in the global settings maybe. Even better if we could have both coarse and fine speeds with the use of a button modifier. Turning the knob would normally give you the coarse speed and then maybe something like holding down Enter while turning would give you the fine speed, similar to how the mouse modifiers work on the knobs in Axe Edit for fine control using the Alt or Shift key or which ever it is.
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Thinking out-loud about how I'd do it if I was dealing with an encoder inside code, I'd look at the elapsed time between changes of values, then if they occurred below a certain amount of time I'd apply a multiplier. That multiplier could be the value stored in the system settings as it'd be the "coarse" amount.

Of course my code would probably make the machine lock up in a glorious manner. :)
 
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mr_fender said:
If possible, this would be a good addition for front panel edits. Perhaps an adjustable knob speed parameter in the global settings maybe. Even better if we could have both coarse and fine speeds with the use of a button modifier. Turning the knob would normally give you the coarse speed and then maybe something like holding down Enter while turning would give you the fine speed, similar to how the mouse modifiers work on the knobs in Axe Edit for fine control using the Alt or Shift key or which ever it is. The opposite would be fine too with fine being normal and coarse being the button held speed.
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I have a few modules that use what I find to be a useful convention: turn is normal/fine resolution and press-knob-while-turning makes large jumps (what Ugly Bunny calls Analog). It has the advantage of only requiring one hand to get both behaviors. I find it works better than relying on acceleration to make large jumps. It would mean giving up press-to-layout (TBH I find that counter-intuitive anyway) and it might be difficult to get people to accept a change like this, but I thought I'd mention it as a convention that has been adopted to solve this problem in other products.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
It's probably possible to add acceleration to the knob's behavior, so that a fast spin jumps farther than a slow one. That allows us to get into the ballpark more quickly, then still have the ability to fine-tune once we're near the desired setting.
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I think it already does this, as far as I've experienced (added in a recent FW?).

I would just like a steady, consistent analog-like behaviour as an option so that, when in this mode, no matter how fast or slow you turn the knob it goes adjusts the parameter the same just like an analog knob that also has a finite throw before hitting max or min, even if we can't necessarily feel the ends of the range.

I love the ability to ultra granular by turning slowly or adjusting wide sweeps by going fast, but this other option would be fun and make the whole unit feel more like the pedals and amps we love. But again; it should be an option - not a permanent global change - and in particular, an option for the Performance Pages.
 
If we're talking about the front panel, there are two lives I do of I don't want to just grab the knob and end up in the ballpark.

One is just to press Enter, type in a number, possibly including a decimal point and/or a minus sign, then press Enter again.

The other is just arrow keys. The resolution of those is different for different controls.
 
Dave Merrill said:
If we're talking about the front panel, there are two lives I do of I don't want to just grab the knob and end up in the ballpark.

One is just to press Enter, type in a number, possibly including a decimal point and/or a minus sign, then press Enter again.

The other is just arrow keys. The resolution of those is different for different controls.
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I’m sorry; I have literally zero idea what you’re talking about :(
 
This can be done currently, to some degree, by using the Manual 1-5 sources in the Modifier page. To access them, on the Home screen on the Axe III, press the 'C' encoder (CONTROLLERS), press the PAGE >> over to the Manual tab. The screen will show 5 virtual knobs.

Select Manual 1 as 'Source 1'. To get the 'analog' response, in the Modifier page use the following values as a starting point:
1. 'Min' and 'Max' to the desired range.
2. 'Start' to 30% and 'Mid' to 100%
3. 'Slope' to 100%, 'Scale' to 2.000 and 'Offset' to -20.0%

These settings on my Axe III provides the typical analog knob sweep from 7:00 to 5:00. You can adjust the sweep of the knob by increasing or decreasing the 'Scale'. You'll need to adjust the 'Offset' and/or 'Start' to get the start point back to the bottom left of the slope window. It's not a perfect solution but will at least allow you to do what you're asking for in the mean time.
 
The issue is mostly knob acceleration and getting that just right is difficult. To me the NeuralDSP Quad Cortex really nailed it, Helix Floor was kinda terrible about it (but latest firmware improved it afaik) while Fractal falls somewhere in between where it's often ok to use the small knobs under the display but you still want to reach for the big knob for better feel.

I think an option to alter the response curve to your liking would be great or if Fractal could provide a few different options that would apply to the small knobs.
 
JoKeR III said:
This can be done currently, to some degree, by using the Manual 1-5 sources in the Modifier page. To access them, on the Home screen on the Axe III, press the 'C' encoder (CONTROLLERS), press the PAGE >> over to the Manual tab. The screen will show 5 virtual knobs.

Select Manual 1 as 'Source 1'. To get the 'analog' response, in the Modifier page use the following values as a starting point:
1. 'Min' and 'Max' to the desired range.
2. 'Start' to 30% and 'Mid' to 100%
3. 'Slope' to 100%, 'Scale' to 2.000 and 'Offset' to -20.0%

These settings on my Axe III provides the typical analog knob sweep from 7:00 to 5:00. You can adjust the sweep of the knob by increasing or decreasing the 'Scale'. You'll need to adjust the 'Offset' and/or 'Start' to get the start point back to the bottom left of the slope window. It's not a perfect solution but will at least allow you to do what you're asking for in the mean time.
Click to expand...
Great tips! Thank you :) Hopefully, if this gets implemented, it'll be dramatically easier than that, but that's a great workaround :D
 
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