Amp in the room?

Vio

Vio

Experienced
Noticed something today ...

I've setup 2 different cabs in my FM3, the same everything on all 4 cab channels but I played with the distance (still sync'd peak to peak for both) where Channel A has both @ 0.0 mm, B both @ 110.0mm, C both @ 250.0 mm and D both all the way up (340.0).
Not sure why, but to me, around the 250.mm mark, the amp seem to sound like it's in the room.

It's not like you move the mic further from the speaker or 'add air' but when the distance is closer to 0, it's like you put your ear near the speaker (everybody is using it this way - i guess - not even bothering to align the waves) and when you increase it up to the sweet spot it starts sounding more ... real?!?

Try it fo yourselves and post your findings. For me it sounds best around 250... A pity I can't put a pedal on 'distance' to find the spot without riffing/strumming, then moving the knobs.

Somebody take this grin out of my face :smiley:

A
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B
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C
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D
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Thanks - love to learn something new , it worked. The change tho' is not that perceptible when you just listen. It's more there where you actually play - I guess. Not sure how to describe it.
 
I’ll try that out - I play mostly at “there are other people in the house” levels and I’ve noticed the strings, even if I think I can’t hear them, are impacting my sound. Super freaky with a pitch block. Maybe that’s the difference you are experiencing?
 
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I have never understood this, if the speaker sim in the modler is in the room with you how does that not make sound like an amp in the room? Even though the sim has a mic backed in to it It's still coming of of a speaker (assuming your listing to it with an FR cab of course).
 
When I think about it, you delay your guitar signal at 250mm by about 0.75ms!
I can only explain your impression of the "amp in the room sound" by the fact that you perceive your playing with a minimal delay (if you play at room volume you may still hear the acoustic noise of the struck strings a little earlier with the greater distance / delay) . This would also explain that the sound played by the looper does not differ, regardless of whether it is played with or without a delay (distance between the virtual mic and the cab). As a sound engineer, I have also had the case by turning the EQ to have said that the sound has improved, until I noticed that the EQ was on bypass!
 
Sixstring said:
I have never understood this, if the speaker sim in the modler is in the room with you how does that not make sound like an amp in the room? Even though the sim has a mic backed in to it It's still coming of of a speaker (assuming your listing to it with an FR cab of course).
Click to expand...
When I listen on an IR, no matter how good, It's like I have my near the mic is in relation to the cab. And every time I bob my head I need to perceive those small fluctuations in tone that you get with the cab in the room, together with the punch in the chest the pierce in the ears and the tingling in the palms of your hands. It's a WHOLE experience. More like flat versus 3D.

Have you ever got into those 4D attractions (Niagara's 'Journey behind the falls' if I remember well) when they put you in a room, spray you with water or hot air and play a movie when the camera rotates and the immersion is that good that you feel the need to hold onto something because that's what the brain tells you although the ground is not moving?

This IR experience is just the opposite :). Your ears tells you the sound is there but your brain is telling you something's missing.
 
sskkmm said:
I think the Room/Air tab is more useful for this - that's why it was added.
Click to expand...
Nah, the experience is different. Try it.
Changing the distance parameter for the IRs it's like moving away from the physical cabinet.
By adding air I feel it like I'm confined in a box together with the speaker and when I turn it up it's like somebody is opening the lid to that box. weird way to explain it but that's how I hear it.
 
Petrocelli said:
When I think about it, you delay your guitar signal at 250mm by about 0.75ms!
I can only explain your impression of the "amp in the room sound" by the fact that you perceive your playing with a minimal delay (if you play at room volume you may still hear the acoustic noise of the struck strings a little earlier with the greater distance / delay) . This would also explain that the sound played by the looper does not differ, regardless of whether it is played with or without a delay (distance between the virtual mic and the cab). As a sound engineer, I have also had the case by turning the EQ to have said that the sound has improved, until I noticed that the EQ was on bypass!
Click to expand...
That's more likely what happens. the brain gets some delayed feedback that resonates closer to playing an amp in the room :D
 
Sixstring said:
I have never understood this, if the speaker sim in the modler is in the room with you how does that not make sound like an amp in the room? Even though the sim has a mic backed in to it It's still coming of of a speaker (assuming your listing to it with an FR cab of course).
Click to expand...
A close-mic'd speaker into a mic preamp (what an IR in a Cab block emulates) into a full range speaker is not the same sound as a guitar speaker.
 
Most Cabinet impulse responses only reproduce a part of the loudspeaker membrane or dome due to the extremely close microphones. In addition, the coloring of various microphones is used to shape the sound. By combining 2 or 3 corresponding point recordings, the sound of a loudspeaker box is created, but does not have as much to do with reality as you would hear this box in the room.
To do this, you would have to place the loudspeaker box in an anechoic room for IR generation and record it with a measuring microphone that is as linear as possible at a certain distance so that no room reflections, but the sound of the loudspeaker chassis as a whole and the Housing resonances of the loudspeaker housing are captured. Loudspeaker cabs with an open back in particular would probably be absorbed with more reality. But I think that most vendors of guitar cabinet IRs do not have the technical means and facilities to create such IRs.
 
Well I guess I have got so used to not hearing an amp in the room sound that I don't really think about it any longer. I still think that open monitoring is close enough to come across sonically that it's kind of splitting hairs to hear the difference. In the context of a band no one is going to really say "Man that close mic'd cab IR sounded horrible" well unless they picked a real crappy IR. Pretty sure when micing a cab on stage FOH and Foldback are going to be the same. You don't really hear amp in the room any longer but the mic'd cab sound.

Different subject I know but personally I think an off axis vrs on axis sound is more of a dramatic difference than amp in the room! Depending on where you are standing, an on axis sound is closer to a close mic'd sound with air and delay that are a part of natural listening environment. Off axis always sounds like you have a blanket over the cab unless you are far enough away from the cab.

I haven't had a chance to try the OP's experiment but I will give it a shot and put on my science hat and really give it a good listen!
 
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