Am I doing something wrong with my setup ?

[jlagana2002]

Can anyone tell me what I could be doing wrong, and how to make my setup better.

Dual mono with (2) 4 X 12 cabs.

I have the AXE FX OUTPUT 1 LEFT > power amp > Going to (1) 4 X 12 cab

and Axe FX OUTPUT 2 LEFT > power amp > Going to the other (1) 4 X 12 cab

This would be true dual mono correct ?

Is this setup ok to max FULL IN YOUR FACE POTENTIAL ???
What would I have to adjust to make it best ???

 

[rickboot]

Not sure if you are joking, just leaving out a lot of information, or are REALLY new at this.

You need a power amp otherwise things will be very quiet... so your connections should be something like:

AXE FX OUTPUT 1 LEFT > Power Amp Channel 1 INPUT
AXE FX OUTPUT 1 RIGHT > Power Amp Channel 2 INPUT

Power Amp Channel 1 OUTPUT > 4 X 12 cab #1
Power Amp Channel 2 OUTPUT > 4 X 12 cab #2

This is a true stereo setup. You can make it mono by changing the Axe-FX output settings to a mono setting (I/O/Audio/Output 1 Mode to L+R Sum).

If you really need help provide more detail. State the problem first. And provide full information on how you have it setup and what you have tried.

 

[jlagana2002]

Sorry Rick,

I just left the power amp out sorry !!!!
My bad !

I had true Stereo setup and I don't feel it.

I want both cabs to spit MONO, so I am doing AXE FX OUT 1 and OUT 2 (BOTH LEFT) to power amp to cabs.

Your way when I use L+R SUM I hear NO DIFFERENCE over stereo.

I'm not a novice. Just a dope.

Does anybody else do this ? Am I dumb for doing this? I hear it and it sounds GREAT ! I just lower the vol on one cab a little to break it apart.

Not into the Axe's Stereo sound. It takes away all the bite for me. That's why people complain and say, "The Axe doesn't sound like my friends JCM800 etc..."

What would I have to change in the presets to make sure I get this dual mono thing going.

Joe

Thank you for your help too.

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

Unfortunately I can't help you with your problem, but to diagnose another individuals unique issue with achieving his desired tone based on your unrelated issue is going a bit far.

 

[jlagana2002]

Unfortunately I can't help you with your problem, but to diagnose another individuals unique issue with achieving his desired tone based on your unrelated issue is going a bit far.

Kinda confused by your response.
If you are not set up dual mono, then I guess you can't help. Thanks for adding that. I get it.

I am just surprised that people think this is so weird. Not you guys, my friends here.
They say, JUST DO STEREO DUDE. That is not cutting it. So they say, just go mono into 1 cabinet !

WHY JUST 1 cabinet ! Why not mono into 2 cabs. Why is this so odd to people. Some may say it stomps on the other cab, umm no, it creates a WALL OF SOUND. How does it step on itself, ITS MONO !

I just want to know how to maximize this. Meaning, small things I may have to change in the presets to make them TRUE LEFT MONO PRESETS.

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

You commented on people whose friends own JCM800s kicking their asses (speaking of rpurdue no doubt) and that such difficulties as the ones you are encountering are the reasons that they have inferior tone. I think implying that the reason he couldn't match a JCM800 was because he was running stereo out (which he wasn't doing) is ludicrous.

 

[Dpoirier]

I am just surprised that people think this is so weird. Not you guys, my friends here.
They say, JUST DO STEREO DUDE. That is not cutting it. So they say, just go mono into 1 cabinet !

WHY JUST 1 cabinet ! Why not mono into 2 cabs. Why is this so odd to people. Some may say it stomps on the other cab, umm no, it creates a WALL OF SOUND. How does it step on itself, ITS MONO !

I just want to know how to maximize this. Meaning, small things I may have to change in the presets to make them TRUE LEFT MONO PRESETS.

This is just not clear yet. Don't be offended if you received a few replies that seem perhaps a little rude... your problem is not clearly defined, and your conclusions (stereo is not cutting it) are demonstratably incorrect.

So let me try to give a little bit of help with a few statements. But for real help, you are going to need to explain a little better how you are set up, what your patches' signal chains look like, and what the problem really is. "Nor cutting it" is not very accurate or precise.

- A true stereo patch will cut it, if set properly. You do not need to reinvent stereo on the Axe-fx (using some hokey dual mono chains to emulate it) in order to achieve true stereo. This is the best stereo processing unit for guitar, period. It can do it if you know how to use the tool
- For a stereo preset to be truly stereo, many things have to happen:
- You must not have a block that collapses to mono *after* the stereo blocks
- The parameters of the stereo blocks must be set appropriately (for example, if you have a chorus block with LFO Phase set to zero, then it's not stereo anymore, but rather mono)
- Panning is crucial. Repeat after me: panning is crucial. If you feed a full stereo signal chain into a stereo cab block (or two mono cab blocks) and if you pan them both dead center, you have just destroyed the entire stereo signal chain and collapsed it to mono. I pan my cabs hard left and hard right for full stereo spread. Some use less radical settings. But whatever you use, panning your cab block dead center will "not cut it".
- The output mode must be set to stereo
- You must use the two outputs from the same pair (duh!), ie L and R from either Output 1 or Output 2.

All of the above is very basic beginner's info. You may already be way beyond that level, I can't possibly know. But this is the sort of info that can make the difference between something that works and something that doesn't.

So your turn. Tell us *exactly* how your gear is hooked up, what your signal chain looks like, what works and what doesn't. And more importantly, please tell us what you mean by "stereo doesn't cut it", because many people on this forum can assure you that yes, stereo *does* cut it, myself included.

 

[jlagana2002]

So your turn. Tell us *exactly* how your gear is hooked up, what your signal chain looks like, what works and what doesn't. And more importantly, please tell us what you mean by "stereo doesn't cut it", because many people on this forum can assure you that yes, stereo *does* cut it, myself included.

1) gear hooked : Les Paul - Axe Fx front input mono - (back of Axe Out1 Left/ Out2 Left for dual mono going to) Fryette 2:50:2 power amp - (2) 4 X 12 cabs.

2) What I mean when I say stereo doesn't cut it: Because of the dual poteniometer volume control in stereo, the right cab comes in softer, lower in volume and slightly spacial to create a stereo effect. I get it. But it is not in your face like mono amp setups. It is just weaker than mono in my opinion. Guitar is a mono instrument with effects being stereo in the real world right?

3) Amp chains are all stock presets except for when I make presets on the fly. I just add an AMP block and EQ thats it ! So I want to go into the 5 or 6 stock presets I like and make them all mono. I don't use anything but 5 or 6 presets.
AAAAALL CAB SIMS AND SAG IS GLOBALLY OFF ! I used to leave my SAG up but I get processed sounding tone. Now with SAG off I get real guitar tones. MY OPINION ONLY !

So the point of all of this is to find other people in the know running dual mono and see what I may be missing. Tips tricks for making this right.

My ear hears the axe fx Stereo setup coming at me just not as big as dual mono, "ON MY RIG HERE" !
When I touch a note I want it immediately, not slightly off keel to acheive a stereo effect in my right cab!

Don't get mad at me, I'm really a great guy ! HA ! JUST ASK MY WIFE!

... Its just my opinion thats all.

 

[Dinkledorf]

I don't believe its necessary if you set your output to Mono and then just use Left and Right from Output 1 but that's a detail. Of course this will work best if your entire chain is Mono as Dpoirier indicated. What you are doing at the moment seems to suggest that internally in the Axe signal chain you are running stereo effects and are achieving Mono by only using the Left outputs. While this works you are potentially missing some signal depending on what effects you have in play.

 

[Dpoirier]

I don't believe its necessary if you set your output to Mono and then just use Left and Right from Output 1 but that's a detail. Of course this will work best if your entire chain is Mono as Dpoirier indicated. What you are doing at the moment seems to suggest that internally in the Axe signal chain you are running stereo effects and are achieving Mono by only using the Left outputs. While this works you are potentially missing some signal depending on what effects you have in play.

I don't think that's what the OP is actually shooting for. If I decrypt the info we've received to date, I *think* he's shooting for a stereo output, but by using two independent mono signal chains (instead of the L and R from one of the two outputs). Why he would want to do that is still a mystery. And I'm not even 100% sure I understand exactly what he's looking for.

Jlagana, it sounds like you've already made up your mind, and you are not really looking for any advice to help you make it work in stereo, is that correct? Because if you are encountering issues, we can provide assistance. But if my perception of what you replied is correct, that's *not* what you're seeking here (what you're really looking for is someone else who's doing this wacky dual mono thing). Is that right? I am not trying to deliberately piss you off here, I am genuinely trying to see if you want help or not. For example, your statement that one of the two channels in stereo is not as loud... this has been discussed before, there is a dead-simple solution. You also mentioned some other artifacts, though they're not clear. With an accurate description, perhaps a sound clip, again some people here could help. But if you don't want any of that help (and you're just looking for another crazy cat who's gone the dual mono way), then we won't bother you with our solutions.

 

[jlagana2002]

I don't believe its necessary if you set your output to Mono and then just use Left and Right from Output 1 but that's a detail. Of course this will work best if your entire chain is Mono as Dpoirier indicated. What you are doing at the moment seems to suggest that internally in the Axe signal chain you are running stereo effects and are achieving Mono by only using the Left outputs. While this works you are potentially missing some signal depending on what effects you have in play.

Yes, this is what I'm talking about !!! Ok, so when I am set in mono some presets have effects that are in stereo. So would choosing to turn these effects to mono may be worth it. That is what I like,because I didn't think about that. I thought it would already default by setting your I/O's in the Axe.

 

[jlagana2002]

I don't believe its necessary if you set your output to Mono and then just use Left and Right from Output 1 but that's a detail. Of course this will work best if your entire chain is Mono as Dpoirier indicated. What you are doing at the moment seems to suggest that internally in the Axe signal chain you are running stereo effects and are achieving Mono by only using the Left outputs. While this works you are potentially missing some signal depending on what effects you have in play.

I don't think that's what the OP is actually shooting for. If I decrypt the info we've received to date, I *think* he's shooting for a stereo output, but by using two independent mono signal chains (instead of the L and R from one of the two outputs). Why he would want to do that is still a mystery. And I'm not even 100% sure I understand exactly what he's looking for.

Jlagana, it sounds like you've already made up your mind, and you are not really looking for any advice to help you make it work in stereo, is that correct? Because if you are encountering issues, we can provide assistance. But if my perception of what you replied is correct, that's *not* what you're seeking here (what you're really looking for is someone else who's doing this wacky dual mono thing). Is that right? I am not trying to deliberately piss you off here, I am genuinely trying to see if you want help or not. For example, your statement that one of the two channels in stereo is not as loud... this has been discussed before, there is a dead-simple solution. You also mentioned some other artifacts, though they're not clear. With an accurate description, perhaps a sound clip, again some people here could help. But if you don't want any of that help (and you're just looking for another crazy cat who's gone the dual mono way), then we won't bother you with our solutions.

Sorry I have been vague ! I am looking for mono into both cabs that play the same thing at the same time. Its hard for me to explain Axe tech talk into forum talk. I sometimes think people are thinking I am lost, somewhat am, but I don't know a lot of this stuff as you can tell, so please be patient with me.

I want your help, yes. And I appreciate what you wrote above, Thank you !

I have spent a lot of time with this thing now and I just run 1 mono chain inside my axe and keep physical outputs OUT1 LEFT, OUT 2 LEFT and I turn on Copy OUT1 to OUT2 in the axe, to the 2:50:2 poweramp/ to both 4X12 cabs.

This is my attempt at bypassing the dual potentiometer gizmo, or at least not have its L/R effect on output 1.

I need to keep up with a guy hooking an SLO100 and an Evantide after this weekend. I think I have a chance now. I will make sure all effects are mono and just make my own patches as to not ask ambigious questions about changing different efects in presets etc...

I went back and re read my 1st posts, and yes, they are very vague and not clear as to what I was looking for, but that is because i can't get the idea of what I am trying to do into words.

Maybe this is foolish, but I can hear a difference and there is no lag between cabinets. And things cream pronounced etc...I waslooking for someone that may have modded these presets already for example etc...

Thanks !

 

[jlagana2002]

You commented on people whose friends own JCM800s kicking their asses (speaking of rpurdue no doubt) and that such difficulties as the ones you are encountering are the reasons that they have inferior tone. I think implying that the reason he couldn't match a JCM800 was because he was running stereo out (which he wasn't doing) is ludicrous.

You like that one huh ?

 

[FreaqyFrequency]

Just sayin'. :?

 

[jlagana2002]

Just sayin'. :?

Ok maybe I was digging, but I hear some other people say stuff like the JCM guy said, and no, they never mentioned stereo being the issue, but they had an issue none the less, and the problem is not always in the axe, I know. There really is no prolem at all. Its just my preference of how i don't like the tone when in stereo.

I think I need a 2nd AXE FX !

 

[Dpoirier]

...
This is my attempt at bypassing the dual potentiometer gizmo, or at least not have its L/R effect on output 1.
...

The above sentence itself is a huge leap of faith. I think you are trying to devise a complex diabolical solution to a problem that (probably?) doesn't even exist. You jumped to the conclusion that you needed to "bypass the dual potentiometer gizmo", and came up with this dual mono "solution". Now you're looking for the best way to do this dual mono thing, but I tell you again: you have lost sight of the real issue, and you're focusing on the wrong approach (in my humble opinion). If you could accept to go back and reconsider that leap of faith, and tell yourself that you don't really need some wacky dual mono signal path, and instead focus on "how do I run this thing as intended, and resolve <whatever-it-is> that doesn't work for me?"

So, if you care to explain why you believe that you need to "bypass the dual potentiometer gizmo", maybe some of us could come up with solutions to the various bits that led you that way?

I repeat again: small differences in output volume between L and R of Output 1 are NORMAL, and there are simple ways to adjust it. And a difference in volume will be *perceived* as a huge difference in tone quality. Get that out of the way, and I think you'll find 90% of your problem is gone.

Then, if you have phasing issues or other artifacts between the two sides of the output, we can help you debug this and work it out.

 

[jlagana2002]

...
This is my attempt at bypassing the dual potentiometer gizmo, or at least not have its L/R effect on output 1.
...

So, if you care to explain why you believe that you need to "bypass the dual potentiometer gizmo", maybe some of us could come up with solutions to the various bits that led you that way?

Well, I like to experiment, I like to push the limits, and I like to search and dig until I break things.
Stereo hookup lacks the snap and bite of popular mono amp rigs I hear. I am just looking for a mono amp sound these days.

That doesn't mean I can't go back to stereo with the turn of a knob. I was just looking for anyone else that has tried this.

I didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers.

 

[Dinkledorf]

No ruffling. Given your further explanation, I think I was correct in my interpretation of what you are trying to do so I restate that you do not need to run out of Output 1 and 2 (both Left). Since you state your signal chain within the Axe-Fx is mono all the way, the Left and Right of Output 1 should be identical. If there is any difference in volume between Left and Right from Output 1 (I can't see why that would be) compensate with either your amp or perhaps the Balance control in the output mixer of the Axe-Fx. Regardless, what you are doing now should work fine.

 

[rickboot]

Whew. This must be like being the soundman at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party...