Alto TS212 - Not to loud? why?

[Martin222]

With my Alto TS212, I recorded some rhythm guitar with the looper and set the output knob on the AX8 at around 2 o'clock. Then I went behind the TS212 and raised the input knob until the clip indicator came on, which was around 2 o'clock as well. I then backed the input down a bit to add a little headroom. My TS212 is quite loud and I have full use of the output knob on the AX8 to raise and lower volume without clipping.

So in the TS you are at the "mic" side od the knob. 1 or 2 oclock - is on the "mic" side - see the PNG. At that point my TS are loud too, but that side is for the mic - it has other use.

 

[Sean D.]

So in the TS you are at the "mic" side od the knob. 1 or 2 oclock - is on the "mic" side - see the PNG. At that point my TS are loud too, but that side is for the mic - it has other use.

Yes... It is the "mic" side, but it is really just a gain knob into a pre-amp. What I am describing is just plain old gain staging regardless of the stenciling on the cabinet.

 

[bradlake]

Yes... It is the "mic" side, but it is really just a gain knob into a pre-amp. What I am describing is just plain old gain staging regardless of the stenciling on the cabinet.

this x 100-- using ones ears in gain staging has to take precedence over knob label.

 

[Martin222]

Yes... It is the "mic" side, but it is really just a gain knob into a pre-amp. What I am describing is just plain old gain staging regardless of the stenciling on the cabinet.

Just a Gain? That is not what my seller was telling me.
He have said that both this sites have different characteristics, but there is one knob - not two in this model.
I've also pasted a small part of FAQ from Alto TS page.

But, if you are right - that could solve the issue.

 

[Sean D.]

Just a Gain? That is not what my seller was telling me.
He have said that both this sites have different characteristics, but there is one knob - not two in this model.
I've also pasted a small part of FAQ from Alto TS page.

But, if you are right - that could solve the issue.

Yes, it is a gain knob. Just like the input gain on a mixer's channel strip. The 12 o'clock position is a good starting point. But the clip indicator is truly your friend here. When you start triggering that indicator, you know that you are clipping the input. That can happen at different knob positions on different units. So, start at 12.. play... see if you are clipping. If not, turn it up until it starts to clip and then back it off until the clip light rarely comes on. You have then maximized the available headroom of the pre-amp and can make all the volume adjustments from the AX8 at that point.

If you are using both channels of the speaker at the same time, you will have to repeat this process with signal coming to both channels at the same time. You will have to back off from the original position on Ch. 1 when you engage the second channel.

Do some research on gain staging in sound reinforcement applications to get a better understanding of the concept. It is knowledge which will serve you well in the future.

 

[Martin222]

Ok - maybe this will help someone in the future. I've found best quality and loudness with something like this:
- I/O ad 4 db
- level knob (next to master, on the device) is on 4-5 o'clock - and that is the clipping point
- My output level is on 80%-90%
- in my bedroom playing the Alto TS 212 know in the back is near 8 or 9 o'clock
- rehersal loudness - I will get to that in my next rehersal.

I've tested Alto with the music from a PC parallel with AX8 to find out is it the AX8 issue with loudness - and it is not. So I think its all the tweaking stuff. I was considering that the Altos are broken also, but that is not the problem too.

Some other question.
I've read that the TS are a bit to bassy - and I have the same feeling - plus I play mostly on neck pickup - that increase the bassy too. How you manage this bassy issue? Is it the amp setting (low bass or hi hights), or EQ - whitch one, what setting? or maby some other way? Please share.

 

[SEKKEN]

Hi, i'm on a couple of TS210 and i'm also experiencing that they're not too loud.

When i use the 2 of them in the room with the band it's sufficient but nothing more than that. I do like enough how they sound but i'm under the impression that they are not as loud as I would expect (1200 watt the 2 of them).

I use to keep one TS210 at home for practice and the other one in the room. When using only one with the band, the turnaround is to go in the mixer with one of AX8's outs for the PA to help otherwise i would not be loud enough.

I use the TS210 at line level, not mic. I wish i could raise them to Mic level but it's not the way i understand it should be used.

 

[Sixstring]

TECH INFORMATION for the Alto TS210

• Output Power: 1100 W peak (700 LF + 400 HF) 550 W continuous RMS (350 LF + 200 HF)
• Low Frequency: 10-inch (305 mm) woofer, 2.5-inch (63.5 mm) voice coil.
• High Frequency: 1-inch (25 mm) neodymium driver with precision waveguide.
• Crossover: 2 kHz.
• Maximum SPL: 127 dB peak, 124 dB continuous (dB-SPL @ 1 m)

Keep in mind the advertising hype! peak numbers are just that peak and aren't reality, the other thing you don't get to do is add the wattage together so your not really playing through 1100 watts of power, but it sounds really cool doesn't it...

Truth of it is you have 350 watts for the lows and 200 for the highs all day long in each speaker, and it will produce 124 dB @ 1 m.

This is still plenty of power to make your ears bleed or go deaf, pick your poison. If your not getting the volume you need to keep up with the rest of the group then there has to be something in the signal chain that's causing the problem or the EQ settings in your presets are not right..

There is also an electronic clip, thermal and transducer overdrive protection in the speaker which could throttle power but only if the input is too high or gets too hot.

 

[Sixstring]

Some other question.
I've read that the TS are a bit to bassy - and I have the same feeling - plus I play mostly on neck pickup - that increase the bassy too. How you manage this bassy issue? Is it the amp setting (low bass or hi hights), or EQ - whitch one, what setting? or maby some other way? Please share.

In the AX8 you have a ton of options with EQ! I would start with the low cut parameter in the cab block then tune the Bass EQ in the amp sim to taste.

You can also use the low cut switch in the amp sim for a quick cut shelved at 80 kHz I believe, personally I like to cut in the cab block as you have better control for where you set the cut freq as 80kHz doesn't always work for every amp sim.

These two are the easiest and fastest to get good results without making deep changes in the amp sim's graphic EQ tab or adding an EQ block pre or post amp sim.