Adjusting Output Block Level

[raybdoc]

At rehearsals it would be useful to have a button dedicated to increasing the level of the output block, and another for decreasing it, so that the overall level of a patch could be adjusted to fit the mix of the band. Is there a way of assigning a modifier so that the level would start at the current level and increase or decrease, say, 0.5dB with each tap? The scene-level-and-save utility is good for fine tuning, but sometimes the overall patch volume starts off much higher or lower than others, and changing that first with your foot (not a mouse) as the band starts would be a quick way to get in the ballpark. Then, save the patch at the new setting and use scene-level-and-save for the nuances, if necessary.

 

[Admin M@]

Not possible. You have SCENE LEVEL and AMP LEVEL options in 1 or 2 dB increments.

 

[raybdoc]

Well, shucks, but thanks. I’ll go back to working on my right-foot-to-mouse coordination skills.

 

[JoKeR III]

I've always used the Amp block LEVEL to adjust preset volume, leaving the OUT LEVEL at 0 in every preset. The AMP LEVEL +/- assigned to a footswitch works perfectly for adjusting preset levels live.

Until the last year or so, I've never really heard of using the OUT LEVEL to adjust the overall volume between presets. Kinda surprising that more and more it seems to be a common method.

 

[chris]

Is there a way of assigning a modifier so that the level would start at the current level and increase or decrease, say, 0.5dB with each tap?
The scene-level-and-save utility is good for fine tuning, but sometimes the overall patch volume starts off much higher or lower than others, and changing that first with your foot (not a mouse) as the band starts would be a quick way to get in the ballpark. Then, save the patch at the new setting and use scene-level-and-save for the nuances, if necessary.

hmm, the current options allow you 1 or 2 dB, and your suggestion of 0.5 seems more "fine tuning" than that.

how is the Scene Level not working out?

and i agree that the Amp level is the best place to adjust presets and scenes for overall volume.

 

[Admin M@]

Until the last year or so, I've never really heard of using the OUT LEVEL to adjust the overall volume between presets. Kinda surprising that more and more it seems to be a common method.

I don't use that method. It causes jumps in spillover tail levels and various other problems.

What gets me is when someone sends a preset to support where, for example, Amp level will be at +2, Cab level is at -14, Scene level is at -13, and main out level is at +16. Crikey, pick one!

 

[chris]

I don't use that method. It causes jumps in spillover tail levels and various other problems.

What gets me is when someone sends a preset to support where, for example, Amp level will be at +2, Cab level is at -14, Scene level is at -13, and main out level is at +16. Crikey, pick one!

yes this. and several EQs in line one boosting the next cutting, and another doing other things. i reset everything and send it back they're like wow what'd you do!

 

[Master of Nothing]

Not possible. You have SCENE LEVEL and AMP LEVEL options in 1 or 2 dB increments.

I have looked everywhere but can’t find how to increase/decrease the Scene Level by 1or 2db using foot switches …..help please….

 

[raybdoc]

Agree that adjusting in 1dB increments rather than 0.5 would fix larger discrepancies in patch levels faster, but sounds like a moot point.

The best is to preset-adjust before a practice so that they’re already close, in which case scene-adjust is all that might be needed. But practically speaking it doesn’t always work. The meter might be tickling the red for two different patches, but there can still be a substantial perceived difference when you’re playing with the band at higher-than-neighbor-friendly volumes. I had to turn down all of the telecaster patches because they made me overpower the band even though the preset adjustment meter had looked comparable to patches for my other guitars. Using the amp-leveling utility is an option but it’s cumbersome if you’re using three or four amp channels on the patch.

None of this is a huge problem, but to be able to keep playing while turning your overall level down and then just save again at the end would mean less scrambling around with the laptop.

 

[raybdoc]

I have looked everywhere but can’t find how to increase/decrease the Scene Level by 1or 2db using foot switches …..help please….

In FM3-Edit choose FC Edit, then choose a layout, then select a switch; for “category“ choose utility; in the “function” window “scene level + save” will be there.

 

[chris]

Using the amp-leveling utility is an option but it’s cumbersome if you’re using three or four amp channels on the patch.

all 4 amp channels could need different types of adjusting if they suddenly don't have the correct level during rehearsal. using the Output block would not solve this because level up for one amp could mean another is way too loud.

that's why the Amp Level parameter appears in the Preset Level Tool in Edit, and why there is an Amp Level + Save function for a switch. Amp Level is the best place to adjust your volumes, as the Amp block is the primary source of volume. in advanced presets with a compressor at the end, you might need to adjust the compressor instead, but always level the Amp block with that post compressor off, to make sure you're getting the right starting level before compression.

None of this is a huge problem, but to be able to keep playing while turning your overall level down and then just save again at the end would mean less scrambling around with the laptop.

as cumbersome as it is to level your 4 amp channels, that's what it may take to get it right, and we do have that capability now.

 

[raybdoc]

all 4 amp channels could need different types of adjusting if they suddenly don't have the correct level during rehearsal. using the Output block would not solve this because level up for one amp could mean another is way too loud.

that's why the Amp Level parameter appears in the Preset Level Tool in Edit, and why there is an Amp Level + Save function for a switch. Amp Level is the best place to adjust your volumes, as the Amp block is the primary source of volume. in advanced presets with a compressor at the end, you might need to adjust the compressor instead, but always level the Amp block with that post compressor off, to make sure you're getting the right starting level before compression.

as cumbersome as it is to level your 4 amp channels, that's what it may take to get it right, and we do have that capability now.

I’m using a preset for each song (so I can just go from scene to scene as the tune progresses), so I’ve already set the various amp channels so that the scenes are very close to each other in volume, except that solo scenes are about 3dB higher. That’s why output level is more relevant to me, at least for now. Super easy to make a minor adjustment in a scene level, but if the whole preset is substantially off from the rest of the show, it would be far more work to change a bunch of scenes or a bunch of amp channels and I can often fix the whole issue by changing the output block level.

Since multiple scenes might be using one amp, I’m worried that changing an amp level that’s sounding wrong in one scene might cause another scene using that amp channel to sound out of balance (due to different effects, EQ, etc. having been applied), so then more tweaking would be required and before you know it I’m eighty. So I’d rather adjust scene levels than amp levels.

Output level adjustment, along with amp level adjustment, is fundamental to the preset tool in FM3-Edit. I don’t know anything about designing a Fractal, but if there’s a way to incrementally change (and save!) scene and amp levels with a foot switch, it seems that might be possible for the output block level as well. (Some day. )

 

[chris]

I’m using a preset for each song (so I can just go from scene to scene as the tune progresses), so I’ve already set the various amp channels so that the scenes are very close to each other in volume, except that solo scenes are about 3dB higher. That’s why output level is more relevant to me, at least for now. Super easy to make a minor adjustment in a scene level, but if the whole preset is substantially off from the rest of the show, it would be far more work to change a bunch of scenes or a bunch of amp channels and I can often fix the whole issue by changing the output block level.

Since multiple scenes might be using one amp, I’m worried that changing an amp level that’s sounding wrong in one scene might cause another scene using that amp channel to sound out of balance (due to different effects, EQ, etc. having been applied), so then more tweaking would be required and before you know it I’m eighty. So I’d rather adjust scene levels than amp levels.

Output level adjustment, along with amp level adjustment, is fundamental to the preset tool in FM3-Edit. I don’t know anything about designing a Fractal, but if there’s a way to incrementally change (and save!) scene and amp levels with a foot switch, it seems that might be possible for the output block level as well. (Some day. )

Since you’ve now explained the full situation, I understand the request.