About to buy... Atomic questions... why tubes ?

[phil110567]

Hi there !

I'm new to this world and about to order the AxeFx Ultra
I'm consideing to buy an atomic amp also.
I dig the concept and I trust the design persons but I haven't tried it yet.

Here's my question :
Why is it tube based ? Normally the Axe Fx is aimed at creating tubes-amplified guitar tone, including speaker sim. Then I understand the idea of using a P.A. or any kind of flat response gear not to color the tone nor to alter the dynamic of tone. Then why not using a transparent powerfull solid state amp (with lot of headroom) full range speaker instead of a tube based design ?

It is like if tone is never true if a real tubes is not in the equation....

 

[yek]

The manufacturer (Tom King) has repeatedly explained that using tubes in the Atomics is just the result of him having experience with tubes instead iof SS. It has nothing to do with a better tone for the Axe.

 

[phil110567]

I understand that. Tubes ans SS are totally different regarding circuit designs.

Anyway solid state was invented in late 1940's... And there was enough time to improve them and to create ideal flat response devices with them with more watts and less weight. Maybe is there other reasons ?

I know tubes may have flat response (depend on design) but they have to be changed sometimes, they are fragile things, and lead to heavy amps because of transformers... So these are drawbacks that I ok to avoid when going digital.

 

[mwc2112]

Maybe is there other reasons ?

His previous Atomic products were tubes. Why reinvent the wheel when you can build on technologies you already had been manufacturing for years?

 

[Shaloha]

This topic was comprehensively dealt with by Tom King in and around the time the Atomic Reactor FR was introduced. I once did a search and summary on what Tom had to say in this regard, and I am pasting it for you below:

from...TOM KING posts:

Why do you choose to go with tubes?

After doing extensive R&D and considering solid state, digital and hybrid options, we found that tubes performed the best in overall sound quality and seriously helped to achieve the presence (“in the room feel”) we were looking for. We have our ideas on how to potentially get those other technologies to work in this type of application but considering development time, target pricing and overcoming the general negative market perception of them, tubes were clearly the best fit for this product.

We used a tube power amp because after doing significant R&D is sounded better than any other option we had heard. This is NOT a statement about the Axe's cab simulation - strictly about good amplification.

I have a hard time understanding why people care whether it uses tubes, solid state or a mouse on a wheel if it sounds great, weighs less than similar solutions, is affordable and compact.

The Axe-Fx does not needs tubes! It needs a great sounding, transparent amplification source. That is what we set out to deliver to our customers that delivers the goods consistently at low, med, and high volumes.

Have you ever heard a tube hifi system break up?

Tube amp break up, whether it is in a guitar amp or hifi system is quite different than the nasty/harsh clipping that occurs in solid state amps. Do not confuse the two sonically.

The bottom line is that the Reactor FR is closer to “flat” than many SS or digital FRFR monitor solutions. As such, it will get you as close to the FOH sound as most anything (IMHO), assuming the house system is close to "flat". The benefit we tout as a reason to use a Reactor FR is that we feel that combined with an Axe-Fx, it delivers a very natural and punchy sound that feels like you are in the room with a traditional amp. These characteristics are not reliant upon whether a unit is "flat" or not.

 

[geetarman]

Maybe is there other reasons ?

His previous Atomic products were tubes. Why reinvent the wheel when you can build on technologies you already had been manufacturing for years?

Because tube amps require maintenance and tubes are more apt to fail due to their fragile nature. I would have bought an Atomic yesterday if he had gone solid state it's just not needed with the Axefx IMO.

 

[iceman]

I have a Reactor Wedge and while it does sound warmer than anything else I've tried, I have already experienced reliability issues with it. Using a tube amp is a trade off I guess...tone for reliability.

 

[phil110567]

Thank you everyone for your answers, ideas and knowledge, based or not on actual experience on the products.

What I feel on my side is that :

1) A tube system when not built in USA may be cost effective. Look at ceriatone stuff. Great sounding tubes gear. Not so expensive.

2) Tubes have Mojo. A tube system may sound "tubes" or not, whatever. People want to play on a cabinet which looks like a guitar cab ! Guitarists, including me, know there are tubes inside and they believe it's better hence maybe actualy play better !!!

3) Regarding the atomic reactor amp, customer usually may not have the mean to blind test the difference with a well made solid state piece of gear having the same usage (here, compare the Atomic with a well made P.A 12' active speaker box with an Axe Fx).

To sum up, I think that the Reactor thing is a not too expensive thing to produce overseas then it allows guitarists to have a not too expensive FRFR stuff they usually don't already have home while satisfying the Tube Mojo.
Tube Mojo is an important thing because it makes people buy. Mojo is important because humans (including guitarists) are not always absolutely "objective" persons. They act subjectively !
We may not forget that the reactor sure sounds great anyway...

 

[vAmpli]

I have 2 Atomics (regular ones). My pros & cons:

PRO

- When they sound good (which is always when there's no flub), they sound like "the best ever" (for me, who has not compared with much other cabs)
- Quiet (well, you *do* hear the fan, but it doesn't bug me)
- Nice crossover between speakers. You can't obviously spot the (hissing) tweeter like you can e.g. in an EON I once tested (even if it's visible there, I know :lol: ).
- no digital EQ in it
- they do sound warm, even with EMG pickups. Is that the tubes, the Axe itself, or both, I don't know.
- nice spread of sound that seems better than average

CON
- They were said to be flat and they are not (I accept that none really can be, but then don't advertise it). You could say "they make the Axe sound better" but you'll have to make 2 Global EQs (one for Atomics and one for PA). If you want to play backing tracks/music through them as well, you'll have to use an extra EQ unit. I've tried music through them and a lot of it is great and defined, but when a voice like Norah Jones hits the boosted freqs it can be unbearable.
- the tubes are not supposed to add to the sound like in a normal power amp. However, Simeon says they do (partly in a good way, depending on your purposes). Me, I don't know, I haven't played super loud yet, and my ears might not be experienced enough to hear.
- one cab is said not to be enough as a backline next to a loud drummer
- before the latest 10.03 firmware a lot of presets were very boomy, and you felt it was often too much for the Atomic. Gave me the impression it is not as fit as I would like it to be for handling bass. Of course, I should make my own sounds from scratch, but you know what I mean.
- some are said to have started smoking, lost handles, ... I have a loose piece of plastic (bass response part) and I hardly ever moved the things. So I have to wonder about Chinese glue and general quality.
- tubes supposed to last 3000 hrs (or was it even less?) And I still haven't seen tips how an engineer should bias them for me. Are we supposed to send them back to manufacturer or is it real easy for any engineer?
- The whole 2 switches hassle of warming/cooling the tubes and letting them cool down before moving
- The tubes give off considerable heat (and some smell) and there's possibly a more than average transformer in it that gives off more electrical radiation than I wanna be too near to (bit of a health nut )
- the non-classy "kiddie logo", which probably leaves some scars if removed? (any tips? :mrgreen: ) The logo/wood is also partly in front of the speaker, but I'll assume that doesn't matter?

So, since I'm mainly a living room player I don't have many regrets so far. But were I to go for a W/D/W or do mono gigs, probably my 3rd speaker would be a more powerful one, solid state, that can handle bass better (if it sounds about as good as the Atomic).