A Tone Epiphany

thatrandomguy1

thatrandomguy1

Member
A little backstory: I'm borderline obsessed with tone dialing. I've been trying to find the "right" tone that fits in a mix and sounds like a real amp. I've been using the AustinBuddy tone pack as a basis of each tone I make. Many videos that I've seen online have suggested cutting a lot of low end out, so for the longest time I've been religiously cutting low end, Anything below 120 was cut out. I used the "cut" switch as well as a 120hz cut at the cab block. I noticed that my guitar was getting lost in the mix even though I accented the Mids and Treble as one typically would do.

That being said, I did some tone dialing with a friend who's a very experienced prog musician. He's toured with bands like Haken, Kyros, and various others. He told me that I shouldn't be cutting that much low end as it makes the tone sound brittle and "fake". He takes a very "do as little as possible approach" to his tone, so We dialed in the Friedman 2018 patch from the AustinBuddy pack and I left the low end as AustinBuddy set it, and WOW the difference it made at band practice. The tone now sounds huge, warm, and authentic versus my old tone that made me sound like a harsh and brittle wannabe Dimebag. Anyone else ever experience anything like this? What are your preferred low-end settings?
 
I concur with your results. I usually want a very tight and focused low end, so in the past I used the cut switch all the time.

But something seemed off with my presets, like the low end was being gated or clipped. My tones lost their "roundness". So I turned off the cut switch and backed my bass settings down. My tones suddenly sounded more realistic.

I still use the cut switch sometimes for really aggressive metal tones, but for classic rock stuff I leave it off. Some of those vintage amps have a slightly flubby low end, so I just run with it now.
 
I'll talk about tone from a different perspective. This is specific to live performing, and where I sit in the bands mix. I find that the tone I NEED live, is slightly different from the tone I prefer, when I am jamming alone. When performing live, I found I need to bump the mids and mid-highs just a bit, so I can sit a bit above the band, especially for solos, and little fills I do in songs. The importance of this (to me), is that I'm not making my guitar louder, I'm simply leveraging the tone spectrum, so I can be heard as needed. I think experimenting even just a bit with an EQ is one of the best things a guitarist can do with their FAS gear. This is especially true if you switch guitars and patches. I'm finding it makes all the difference. I've been using FAS gear since they opened the doors, and I'm still learning. I love it.
 
I guess we all have what we want to hear. I only play live and have always cut out anything below 120. I have always liked where I sit in the mix, never feel to small sounding and time and time again I have sound guys tell me I did nothing to your sound but raise your fader. If adding more lows back in did the trick for you that is awesome and in some cases this advice might help a lot of people.
 
I try not to use that lo cut switch unless absolutely necessary, just lower bass instead, even to 1.00

Dial the Lo Cut in on the cab block to fit the system you use. You can cut anything below 70Hz without issue (bass guitar lives around there anyway, you don’t want to conflict) for almost any guitar amp. But live usually you want everything under at least 100Hz gone.

I will cut anywhere between 90 and 175Hz to get it sound good loud without flubbiness or getting mushy (along with adjusting bass tone knob down low) but it depends on the amp AND especially the cab IR —some like the Citrus V30 or Uber V30 are extra bassy and I may go upt to cutting below 150 or even 175 for certain IRs. It may also matter what the resonant frequency may be on your real monitors/playback system speakers too. Experiment!
 
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richb said:
....I find that the tone I NEED live, is slightly different from the tone I prefer, when I am jamming alone. When performing live, I found I need to bump the mids and mid-highs just a bit, so I can sit a bit above the band, especially for solos, and little fills I do in songs. The importance of this (to me), is that I'm not making my guitar louder, I'm simply leveraging the tone spectrum, so I can be heard as needed.....
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I really appreciate this post; I feel like it reflects some of my own struggles and observations. That which sounds *right* to my ears tone-wise, or even just loud-enough -- in the absence of the band playing -- can become a very different situation when the band joins in, and I am then finding it difficult to hear myself or be heard by others. It does indeed seem like EQ adjustments can help considerably.
 
Paultergeist said:
I really appreciate this post; I feel like it reflects some of my own struggles and observations. That which sounds *right* to my ears tone-wise, or even just loud-enough -- in the absence of the band playing -- can become a very different situation when the band joins in, and I am then finding it difficult to hear myself or be heard by others. It does indeed seem like EQ adjustments can help considerably.
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Just this last Saturday was a perfect example of a new patch I was using with my Strat, (Which I still feel new with, after a year), where I switched to a new patch which sounded great at home, but got lost in the mix, playing live. My instinct is to reach down and turn up the volume, but instead I made a mental note of what I heard, and simply reverted to my old patch for the rest of the song. The following day I bumped the Mids and Mid-Highs, and this weekend I'll see how it sits with the band at rehearsal.
 
Following every single tip people give you doesn't always get you there. If you have been using an amp with low bass, set low cut on cab to 120hz, had the "cut" switch on in the amp and been using a bright non-bassy SM57 IR: no wonder your low end has been sounding thin. It happens if you cut all the bass. There's no need to pull out every bass tightening trick there is if you don't need them.

Think of it as this way: many people suffer with boomy low-end if you keep your bass too high and don't cut anything – you just did it the opposite way and finally found what works for you! The next time you dial in an amp, you have an excellent starting point.

It's a learning curve for everyone, so I totally get you. I'm always keen to try and mess with every single tip people give you. Once you're happy with something: enjoy the hell out of it for a second and stop looking for the 0.1% better tone!
 
austinbuddy said:
There is a really useful tool on this in the Amp Block, 5 band passive EQ. Bump the mids and upper mid GEQ sliders up by just a 1 or 2 db and it will focus your tone in the mids area...
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Dumb question.......is the "amp block" a part of the AX8 programming circuit?
 
....then again, I suppose it is also possible that I simply suck as a player, and that my tone struggles are simply Nature's way of protecting the sensitive ears of others!
 
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