A question about Rotary and Vibe

Some effects rely on the interplay between the wet signal and the dry signal. With those effects, 50% mix gives you the strongest effect. One example is chorus. 50% mix gives you the most chorus-like sound. At 100% mix, it devolves into a simple vibrato.
I’ve had an original TC Stereo Chorus/Flanger for years, the one Eric Johnson used for his sound, but not for chorus or flanger. I kept the switch between them on the Vibrato setting and, running into a stereo amp setup, let the slow modulation pitch warble create chorus in the air on the way to the audience to mix in their ears. It’s more delicate.
 
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Would love to see the rotary get some love and attention in the updates. The drive in that block is a bit gritty and spitty. A Leslie power amp's distortion is a lot thicker and chewier. Cathode biased 6550s. Beefy....
In the FX2 forums (I think it was) Cliff talked about not modeling the amp of the Leslie unit because it used too much CPU, which I interpret as meaning there wasn’t enough bang for the buck then. I wonder if that has changed since then to allow pushing the amplifier, because that seems like it’d be the fastest path to nailing the Leslie sound, from clean to mean.
 
I'd say it differently because most, if not all, pedals claim they've captured the sound of the real rotary, but they haven't. Working with one on stage is an incredible experience; pedals just don't do well in comparison. I suspect that the real deal bends the laws of physics the way sound moves around the room.

I've used many different pedals going for that effect, and still have a Strymon Lex v.2 on my pedalboard that I alternate with something or other else that I like too. But they don't match the real spinning rotor and drum because most "rotary" pedals are overboard in their emulation, without the subtleties. People like that so I understand the sentiment, but Fractal gives us good controls so we can adjust it how we want also.

My own version of the rotary is attached to some threads so search and I'm sure you'll find some that reflect the evolution of my version of it. I think it sounds pretty realistic and is comparable to the Leslie units our keyboard player would demand we help move around.


PS - Strymon's white paper discussing their technology is useful reading.
I stole Greg's version of the rotary and it is really quite incredible. It's taken some getting used to, as it is NOT like pedals I have used. I actually quite like the brake settings as well. A

s a rule I tend to like rotary at the end of my signal chain.
 
I stole Greg's version of the rotary and it is really quite incredible. It's taken some getting used to, as it is NOT like pedals I have used. I actually quite like the brake settings as well. A

s a rule I tend to like rotary at the end of my signal chain.
Thank you, I never expected anyone to say that 'bout it. I think the brake mode is a huge part of the expressiveness of the rotary, especially when using it as a contrast to fast.
 
I like the rotary effect although it doesn't doesn't sound much like a Leslie. I like the pedal Warren Haynes uses for a rotary effect, and the rotary block does that ok. I just picked up Greg's block and will try it out later today. Thanks @Greg Ferguson

Found it here https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/most-common-use-for-scene-controllers.189636/#post-2353349

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It's in several posts but has slowly morphed over time.

My current one is attached. Here's the Per-Preset assignment I use for controlling it:

Screenshot 2023-03-04 at 1.56.26 PM.png

although it doesn't doesn't sound much like a Leslie
A real Leslie relies on the cabinet's and room's walls bouncing the sound from the spinning drum and rotor, and if I remember right, Doppler shift. A single sound source isn't going to reproduce that, and a stereo rig still won't do it right because it's not moving. Possibly using some Dolby ATMOS encoding on top of the Rotary block would help because it would add additional hints for the sound source, but I wouldn't be surprised if that would add some real CPU load and would involve licensing fees.

@FractalAudio
 

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It's in several posts but has slowly morphed over time.

My current one is attached.


A real Leslie relies on the room's walls bouncing the sound from the spinning drum and rotor, and if I remember right, Doppler shift. A single sound source isn't going to reproduce that, and a stereo rig still won't do it right because it's not moving. Possibly using some Dolby ATMOS encoding on top of the Rotary block would help because it would add additional hints for the sound source, but I wouldn't be surprised if that would add some real CPU load and would involve licensing fees.

@FractalAudio
Yeah Leslie-in-the-room is certainly a thing, but the Neo Instruments Ventilator and Mini-Vent do a pretty righteous job of it, based on the vids I've seen (never tried either myself).
 
A huge part of the rotary for me is having the rate controlled by a LFO set to taste. That way it oscillates between fast and slow without me having to think about it while I’m playing. It works really well for me. Setting the rate using the envelope follower works good too because it will naturally speed up based on the intensity of your playing although I’ve found this better with the tremolo block.
 
They're OK. Strymon's Lex is my favorite of standalone Rotary pedals. Their white paper on how they accomplished it is interesting.
Never heard the Lex in person either, but they make great stuff.

I have a lot of resistance to adding external pedals to my Axe rig, with an FC-12 it's bulky enough already. But who knows. I'm not actually gigging, so I'm theory my tolerance for "bringing" more stuff should be much greater.
 
I have a lot of resistance to adding external pedals to my Axe rig
I am the same way. I still have my original pedal board, which has many nice-sounding pedals on it, but I like the flexibility of the Fractal and find its blocks sound good enough to keep me happy. And, anymore, I'm a "straight into the single channel amp" guy so, even though I have a small selection of effects in a preset, I rarely use them. I turn up the guitar and go.
 
It's in several posts but has slowly morphed over time.

My current one is attached. Here's the Per-Preset assignment I use for controlling it:

View attachment 117116


A real Leslie relies on the room's walls bouncing the sound from the spinning drum and rotor, and if I remember right, Doppler shift. A single sound source isn't going to reproduce that, and a stereo rig still won't do it right because it's not moving. Possibly using some Dolby ATMOS encoding on top of the Rotary block would help because it would add additional hints for the sound source, but I wouldn't be surprised if that would add some real CPU load and would involve licensing fees.

@FractalAudio

Tried this out. I like it, and will be using it on my rotary presets. Sounds great through phones. Usually I play mono, but today I ran one side into my Headrush 112 to do stereo with my F12 cab. Better than the stock rotary for sure. What's with the channel with speed set to zero? It still manages to give some ambience, or is it mostly a preamp thing? Thanks Greg. Nice of you to share.
 
What's with the channel with speed set to zero? It still manages to give some ambience, or is it mostly a preamp thing?
Speed = 0 is a braked rotary. Real Leslies have that, and you'll hear it often on blues and rock records. It's different than bypassing the block because the sound is still what you'd hear coming from the horn and drum. It's an interesting sound because the horn and drum slow at different speeds and it's pretty apparent then. A real unit takes about 5 seconds to slow the drum but that is too slow for me so I shortened it to 3.5 sec.
 
Do I gather you've compared the Lex to one of the Vent pedals yourself?
Not on my board, but listening in the same room. The sound was no better than Strymon, the real Leslie had “that sound.”

It’s the physics that make it hard for any of these devices to recreate the true rotary sound. Without the spinning speakers throwing sound into the room they lose their magic. Even a real rotary sounds weird outdoors unless you’re right beside it because it isn’t bouncing sound off the walls, it typically has stereo mics catching the sound, and at that point the Strymon or Vent is as good from what I’ve heard, and they’re a lot less finicky.

In the past I looked for a technical or white paper on how Vent does their sound, and couldn’t find one, but I imagine they went after it in a similar way as Strymon, computing the reflections inside the cabinet. Now, if we could get synchronized rotating speakers or a speaker array that fired in multiple directions and directed the sound of the pedals to it, then we might have the equivalent. When I last was in the market for the pedals I finally got tired of the chase and the Vent was about $100 more IIRC, but didn’t sound $100 better. What I considered “good enough” won.
 
I've always liked the Vent pedals and the Rotary block sounds very much like them. I know quite a few keyboard players who use them as well. I keep the Rotary block before the amp, just like many pedals such as the Vent are usually placed before the amplifier, even if that means the sound is mono.
 
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