A personal & temporary workaround for different transients

onebaldbloke

Inspired
For those interested, here's a temporary & admittedly not very elegant workaround for me & what I perceived to be a transient (I dare not utter the "C" word") element I found lacking in the Axe. If this post doesn't interest you, for the sake of others here & in the hope of open discussion & avoiding deletion, I ask that you refrain from insults or attacks on my own observations, which may be different from yours. And yes, even my own Family think that I am a trouble maker! Such is life.

My (hopefully temporary) solution, which is neither earth-shattering nor original, is to use various stomp boxes in series (Ivan Richards, mostly) before the Axe/clean amp (e.g Rich Blues into Rich Drive). This had been the basis of my tone pre-Axe for about 10 years, anyway. This is what you hear if you whack on my web site, like it or not. The problem is that this setup precludes me from using the Axe for distortion. Shock! Horror! So, I've gone back in time a little, & now have a 12 audio loops RJM switching thingy (I sold my SwitchBlade last year when I got the Axe), with a dozen stomp boxes rack mounted & connected to it, & switch between these boxes (or combinations thereof), always ending with the Axe on a clean setting (SVT, AC30 etc) through this week's fave IR. FWIW, ages ago when I posted that the RedWirez IR's had more "attack" to my ears than the Fractal ones, I did not get insulted.

To re-iterate - this is NOT an elegant solution, nor does the Axe now replace everything in a nice little two unit housing (it's back up to 6, bugger it!) but it does return to me the "transient response" I believe to be missing. It's always been about my tone to me, anyway (not copying someone else's), not convenience.

So far, this is really good, though I can't really approximate any particular amp's distortion, because it's Ivan's boxes (in my case) that are doing that. This is no doubt a terrible thing for others, but is not at all bad for me, as I don't have the burning desire to copy or replace "real amps" with the Axe, I just want to get a tone I like, whatever that ends up sounding like. It's all cultural & subjective, after all.
Even Sir Belew (a man I truly & deeply admire) once used as his main sound a BigMuff/Foxx into a clean JC120, I believe.
(And of course, you can hear that little Boss compressor on at all times - er, until he got his Axe!)

I seem to recall Jimmy Page saying that his sound was really just a Tone Bender, presumably running into a cleanish amp. Having seen & heard him live in 1972, this sounds correct. Not that what old JP does is that dear to me; it only serves to illuminate that "amp distortion" has not always been the foundation of "good tone". I suspect that the same, for example, may have been true of Clapton during the Marshall stacks era Cream - because that also sounds like a lot of "stomp box" distortion to me (FuzzFace, ToneBender etc). I have owned many 60's Marshalls, Fenders etc, & they certainly didn't sound like that without a stomp box before them! Also, I have been able to work with some great/famous producers, & they concur on this, though it's still my own ears that I trust, always.

However, this post is not intended to start an argument on those old British blokes' equipment, so I'll stop that here.

On a personal note, thanks to those of you who PM'd & emailed me in support of my posts in the deleted thread.

Over,
Bob.
 
Thumbs up.

I'm definitely interested in seeing logical, rational discussion continued here. This seems like a parameter I'd be interested in exploring the values of, were it to be exposed.
 
Thanks Bob for your post above. From one Aussie to another, "Good onya! :cool:" for enlightening us with your perspective.

While I am hesitant to add to this thread and am not wanting to start anything that might devolve matters, I am glad you are still willing to share with us how you make the Axe-FX work for you.

Personally I believe that if it was not for posts like yours, offering possible constructive suggestions on how to improve the product, we'd still be on firmware 5.25 or something. It spurs me to be more critical of my tone (even with a tool such as the Axe-FX) when I next sit down to practice and play my instrument.

I look forward to hearing more of your wonderful music, and maybe at some stage, further advancements will be made in modelling to cater for your tonal tastes.

TimmyM
PS. Now I am GASsing a bit for some Ivan Richards pedals!! :eek:
 
Hey Bloke... just wondering if you have tried any of the radial products that keep the impedance levels so that your guitar reacts like it is connected to an amp. See http://www.tonebone.com/tb-dragster.htm for the most affordable one. I have contemplated putting something like this in front of the AxeFx just to make it very realistic. Just a thought. Your posts have made me think. I remember years ago when a friend (a fabulous player) brought his VG-8 over... he had raved about it. We recorded something and man... my Triaxis had all this chewy pick attack and the VG-8? NONE. It was a VG-8 killer for me right there. Anyhow... maybe getting the impedance in a controllable fashion might help.

Scott
 
So... I wasn't following the deleted thread, what is wrong with the transients?
Do you have too much attack? or is it too little?

:?:
 
prog_head said:
Hey Bloke... just wondering if you have tried any of the radial products that keep the impedance levels so that your guitar reacts like it is connected to an amp. See http://www.tonebone.com/tb-dragster.htm for the most affordable one. I have contemplated putting something like this in front of the AxeFx just to make it very realistic. Just a thought. Your posts have made me think. I remember years ago when a friend (a fabulous player) brought his VG-8 over... he had raved about it. We recorded something and man... my Triaxis had all this chewy pick attack and the VG-8? NONE. It was a VG-8 killer for me right there. Anyhow... maybe getting the impedance in a controllable fashion might help.

Scott

Hi Scott.
I've not tried the Radial Impedance matching device, so I can't comment, old son.
I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that the Axe's input impedances (front & rear) are 1 Meg, as are most guitar amps, so this should be cool. My gut feeling is that in fact the Z issue is covered - i.e. there is no issue with it.

There are some designers of high-end audio gear (mic pre's etc) that subscribe to the exact matching of devices' impedances (to quote a tech mate "Rupert Neve has a lot to answer for...") but, AFAIAA, this has not carried over to guitar amps in the same way.

But, of course, this should not prevent you from trying stuff.
So go for it - and please post your results!

Over,
Bob.
 
If you MUST use a radial dragster, buy a 1M log pot for $2, adjust it where you like it, measure the resistance, buy a 2c resistor and install it inside a cable plug. Then send me a cheque for what you saved :lol:

The effect is to dull your sound, which might be useful for very short cable runs into high impedance devices, like SOME wireless transmitters. Total waste of time IMHO for regular cable runs.
 
GM Arts said:
If you MUST use a radial dragster, buy a 1M log pot for $2, adjust it where you like it, measure the resistance, buy a 2c resistor and install it inside a cable plug. Then send me a cheque for what you saved :lol:

The effect is to dull your sound, which might be useful for very short cable runs into high impedance devices, like SOME wireless transmitters. Total waste of time IMHO for regular cable runs.

Good info - thank you.
 
GM Arts said:
If you MUST use a radial dragster, buy a 1M log pot for $2, adjust it where you like it, measure the resistance, buy a 2c resistor and install it inside a cable plug. Then send me a cheque for what you saved :lol:

The effect is to dull your sound, which might be useful for very short cable runs into high impedance devices, like SOME wireless transmitters. Total waste of time IMHO for regular cable runs.

And 100% accurate too.

It's just a pot with a ground. It works, no doubt. But that's all it is.
 
Hi,

For various resons I do not yet own an Axe-Fx (mostly the wife not realizing the Axe-Fx is a necessary household item to be financed from household account). But I have also been hunting the initial attack portion of the sound in my modeler (Boss GS-10) and I also run a number of pedals in combination in front of a clean amp modeler. For clean sounds usually one of three compressor I have on my board and the boost part of a T-Rex Möller (set very low to almost no boost). This gives me the attack an the dynamics I want. For OD sounds I use a number of pedals and very often in combination. Tides me over until I can fill up the savings account.

I have also tried the Radial Dragster but that is now sitting in a desk drawer.

Cheers,

Mats N
 
I generally prefer pedal into amp vs. amp distortion. I'm just curious if you've tried using a couple of drive blocks into a cleanish amp model? I have found that it makes a subtle difference to use an FET or other clean boost in front of the amp, not for a boost in volume but for the way it interacts with another drive in front of it. I started doing this while trying to emulate EJ's effects chain, with the FET providing the "preamp" portion of the Echoplex. David Gilmour also makes extensive use of various fuzz and drive combos into clean amps.

FWIW, I've also experimented with running two amps in series, using one amp as sort of a gonzo "drive pedal" into another. It works surprising well, if you don't try to go overboard with gain.
 
Actually now we're on this idea of using drives in the box, I have to say that I found it necessary to use the boost on the drive knob in the amp block and turn down the drive to get what I want. For some reason or another I found this gave a slightly improved (IMHO YMMV!!) tone to just turning up the drive and the master (though I crank the master anyway, for my sounds. Tighter tones require more judicious use of the master control).

All food for thought really.

TimmyM
 
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