a Christmas gift the community: Perfected Tuning offsets

trueresource said:
Im saying "if you compare open string tuning to harmonic tuning on the fx3, you will get different tuning results, and neither result agrees with my preferred tuner, the AiryWare.
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What I don't unterstand:
Assumed that open string tuning compared to harmonic tuning delivers different results (I didn't check that) what difference does an offset do? You still get two different results, just with the same offset on both.
 
painkiller said:
What I don't unterstand:
Assumed that open string tuning compared to harmonic tuning delivers different results (I didn't check that) what difference does an offset do? You still get two different results, just with the same offset on both.
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Try the new offsets in your Fx3: -13.95 --10.3 -9.65 -13.85 -5.4 -2.85 EADGBE. When you tune to them, the Linear should center screen. Don't be concerned about the strobe oscillation
 
AngusV said:
Honestly, if your 12th fretted tuning is different from open, then it’s your guitar dude. Intonation and shit. Open string vs 1st Harmonic is alway in tune. Laws of physics dictate.
All other frets will be off though, either use true temperament fret system or sweetened tunings aka CCooper for work around.
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My, intonation is perfect. It is the Fx3, that is displaying a difference. All, Please try the new offsets -13.95 --10.3 -9.65 -13.85 -5.4 -2.85 EADGBE before you comment, as many of you are turning this into a James Taylor post. This however is an "Adjusted Fx3 calibration" to match a Modified James Taylor. The end results may shock you. Ive worked many years on this, and have found what I consider "perfected tuning".
 
My name is mud said:
I've looked at this one before, but what it is doing is dealing with this guitar, it's fixing this guitar's flaws by doing this… but applying those fixes to another guitar doesn't make any sense
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It's not the guitar's "flaws." "Sweetened tunings" have to do with the way we delineate what each note's frequency should be, based on equal temperament tuning. It's not a perfect system, but neither is just intonation. It's not possible to build a guitar in which every fretted note will be the exact correct pitch, and when you tune the open strings to be exact, the chords you play will be "off" slightly. Sweetened tunings work to find a compromise in which all the chords will be as close as possible to sounding as good as can be.

For example, if you tune your guitar so that each note of an open E chord are harmonically correct, in which the 3rd and the 5th are ratios of the frequency of the root note, that chord will sound perfect. But then play an open D or G or C, and the notes are now off. Equal temperament works to make each frequency an equal proportion higher than the starting tone (e.g., A-440), but again, using those frequencies for the notes in a chord, and they're not perfect. It's simply a product of physics. Sweetened tunings take it one step further, to help make chords sound, as an average, closer than they may be otherwise.

That's the best I can explain it, but that's the gist of it.

Now that being said, I think what the OP is saying is if you have the tuner set to use offsets (which I do), when the open string is showing to be perfectly in tune to that offset, the 12th fret harmonic is not. I checked it, and that's what I found. We know the 12th fret harmonic is the exact same pitch, along with the octave, as the open note, but the tuner didn't show this.
 
If you’ve ever tuned a piano, you’ll know that an octave ain’t necessarily exactly double the frequency. Needs to be stretched.
Thanks
Pauly
 
trancegodz said:
just make sure my intonation is right, my strings are in good shape, and tune with a good tuner. I might make small adjustments by ear if it doesn't sound just right
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Yes I think that’s it in the end. That’s never electronic that got the final word here, you fine tune by ears and if it’s good it s good. But everyone does what they want hm 👍🏻
 
TSJMajesty said:
Btw, I modified my offsets slightly, using Cooper Carter's as a starting point, and I think chords sound good. Mine are: EADGBE: -2.3, -2.1, -.4, 0, -4.35, -2.3.
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Ok … don’t know. as I said just before, that’s not my tuner who rule here but my ears .They are too many parameters to consider to stick with a combinaison. The day you change your strings or this or that… your ears is your best friend I think
 
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I noticed that not one person who has commented has actually tested the offsets. Instead have made judgments based on their own experiences. I called this a Christmas gift because its something new, something you must experience. Do yourselves a favor: plug in the offsets. -13.95 --10.3 -9.65 -13.85 -5.4 -2.85 EADGBE. Try them over music. Then comeback and inform us of the result. Ignore the grandstanders who are steering you away from what I have found is the greatest discovery that I found in guitar experience.
 
TSJMajesty said:
Now that being said, I think what the OP is saying is if you have the tuner set to use offsets (which I do), when the open string is showing to be perfectly in tune to that offset, the 12th fret harmonic is not. I checked it, and that's what I found. We know the 12th fret harmonic is the exact same pitch, along with the octave, as the open note, but the tuner didn't show this.
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Finally, a great response! Thanks TSJMajesty
 
My name is mud said:
I never heard about that my whole life. After minding “wtf are they talking about?” I ve done some research about this “sweetened tuning” and …

You cannot copy someone else “setting” because you don’t have the same guitar, strings, you don’t do the same pressure … the way the guitar is built this and that …

So I still don’t get it 😅

A guitar should be “harmonized” whatever tuner you are using. Ears are always the final step. I quite never used a tuner my whole life but just a note as a reference or…

The sure thing is that you can be perfectly in pitch with a tuner and sound off while playing, because of the instrument you are playing, how it is set, if it’s well build, and also the way you play . Some people for example put tons of pressure, specially when they begin

all of that is too much personal to be shared to someone else 🤔
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You’re wrong. I’ve been using petersons sweetened tunings for 20 years. All properly setup and intonated guitars have the same tuning issues. That’s why sweetened tunings work like magic
 
I’m definitely interested in checking this out. I’ve never played with sweetened tunings before but can absolutely see how they can make a difference just by the experiences with my current guitars, the one with an Evertune, specifically.

While the Evertune doesn’t really claim to do this (I don’t think anyway), I noticed the tuning is much better up the neck than on other guitars. There are some chords I can play where no beating exists which is present on other guitars and I’m guessing it’s because of the way the Evertune works. I’m too theory stupid to know the chord names, but it’s really any time I’m playing both the G and B strings around the 7th-12th fret, like a barre chord playing the G and B on both frets. They sound perfectly in tune with the Evertune, but with other guitars, despite the intonation being correct, there’s a little beating going on.

I’ll give this a shot! Thanks!
 
I see the same as OP on my FM9. Without offset, open string and 12th harmonic both report to be in tune.

When using offset (e.g. low E, -12.0 Cent offset), open string is in tune, 12th harmonic reports about -5 Cent off.
 
Henry said:
When using offset (e.g. low E, -12.0 Cent offset), open string is in tune, 12th harmonic reports about -5 Cent off.
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That's because it would be using the 4th string offset when you play the harmonic, since that's the nearest open string pitch. If you want to tune with octave harmonics you should disable the tuner offsets and tune so the low E reads -12 cents or whatever you like on the tuner display, etc.
 
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