7 to 10 on the dial... RCF update

Rick

Rick

Axe-Master
One more update on the RCF NX12SMA...

Played an outdoor festival gig last night, on a medium sized stage with a very loud flown PA. The grounds had a few buildings in the area, which created a rockabilly sounding slap delay that concerned me at first... until that PA fired up and drowned it. While first setting up, my rig was immediately swallowed up by the stage volume. Note here that my band normally plays with everyone but me using in ear monitoring, so the stage is normally pretty quiet and my amp is set accordingly. Using the venue PA, everyone was back on stage amps and using wedge monitors, so it was deafening by comparison. I guess I am spoiled!

I started by boosting the send on the Axe FX a bit, which helped, but I was still having problems hearing myself clearly. The RCF was set at about 6.5 on the dial, so I thought I'd boost that a bit. I got a very pleasant surprise when I turned it up to about 8.5-9... the taper of the volume is not linear (more so than I knew)! I knew it got louder quicker as you turned up, as I had experienced this on my initial uses and impressions, but let me tell you, as you near the wide open setting, it really starts steaming. So I turned the Axe FX down a bit and left the RCF up. I had no problem the rest of the night, the sound was full and punchy, and covered the stage nicely without drowning out the other player. Very much a guitar amp sound, albeit a very high quality amp.

User info, for those interested: RCF was on the floor (no room for the stand I use), turned at the higher angle (upside down, if you will), on line setting, switch set to floor use, 1/4" input used from Out 2 on the Axe Fx. The message here is don't be afraid to turn it up. The quality of sound stays, and the coverage improves a lot.

Still very happy with the combination of the Axe Fx II and the RCF NX12SMA. I intend on getting a second one eventually to run stereo and keep this quality of sound. 8)
 
Rick said:
One more update on the RCF NX12SMA...

Played an outdoor festival gig last night, on a medium sized stage with a very loud flown PA. The grounds had a few buildings in the area, which created a rockabilly sounding slap delay that concerned me at first... until that PA fired up and drowned it. While first setting up, my rig was immediately swallowed up by the stage volume. Note here that my band normally plays with everyone but me using in ear monitoring, so the stage is normally pretty quiet and my amp is set accordingly. Using the venue PA, everyone was back on stage amps and using wedge monitors, so it was deafening by comparison. I guess I am spoiled!

I started by boosting the send on the Axe FX a bit, which helped, but I was still having problems hearing myself clearly. The RCF was set at about 6.5 on the dial, so I thought I'd boost that a bit. I got a very pleasant surprise when I turned it up to about 8.5-9... the taper of the volume is not linear (more so than I knew)! I knew it got louder quicker as you turned up, as I had experienced this on my initial uses and impressions, but let me tell you, as you near the wide open setting, it really starts steaming. So I turned the Axe FX down a bit and left the RCF up. I had no problem the rest of the night, the sound was full and punchy, and covered the stage nicely without drowning out the other player. Very much a guitar amp sound, albeit a very high quality amp.

User info, for those interested: RCF was on the floor (no room for the stand I use), turned at the higher angle (upside down, if you will), on line setting, switch set to floor use, 1/4" input used from Out 2 on the Axe Fx. The message here is don't be afraid to turn it up. The quality of sound stays, and the coverage improves a lot.

Still very happy with the combination of the Axe Fx II and the RCF NX12SMA. I intend on getting a second one eventually to run stereo and keep this quality of sound. 8)
Click to expand...

I curious what your typical setup is for a vocal monitor. I've been thinking of getting into an RCF NX12SMA based on reviews. I'm presently running a K12 which offers two separate inputs which is pretty handy. I run my Axe II to input #1, and my vocal monitor from the aux feed from the PA board to input #2. Any tips?
Thx,
Joe
 
merlin17 said:
I always have my RCF volume on full and adjust with the AXE's output volume.
Click to expand...

Merlin, I am thinking the same thing. This is normally how I run PA amps anyway, so it should work fine. I was fairly impressed with how punchy the sound was at volume, actually got better the louder I went. That's not something many speaker systems can claim.

Big Joe Daddy said:
I curious what your typical setup is for a vocal monitor. I've been thinking of getting into an RCF NX12SMA based on reviews. I'm presently running a K12 which offers two separate inputs which is pretty handy. I run my Axe II to input #1, and my vocal monitor from the aux feed from the PA board to input #2. Any tips?
Thx,
Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, in normal situations I have a JBL Eon 15G2 as a vocal monitor. On occasion I have run the Axe II into it as well (extremely tight stages at low volume). It works, but the Eon doesn't really do the Axe Fx justice... it's just a workaround for special circumstances. My preference, and this is personal as you'll find many who disagree, is to keep most guitar out of the vocal monitor because it competes for space (one always seeming to cover the other). My band is heavy on vocal harmonies, and you have to hear clearly to stay in the pocket on changes. On this particular gig, the vocal monitor is a big Yamaha club series 15 and horn. Frankly, I'd rather have the Eon. The Yamaha is muddy, and lacks definition in the highs (the mixer is an Allen and Heath iLive, so they aren't cutting corners on the monitor rig!). We'll be back there tonight opening for Kevin Fowler (Texas country artist), so I will start much better prepared this time!

The NX12SMA has two inputs (sort of, parallel), but I would side with Chris on getting an outboard mixer so you could EQ the inputs independently. Mackie makes a small 4 channel unit I have used for similar purpose (mixing to my in ear monitors when I use them). It is called a 402VLZ3, and it is cheap ($100 new), sounds good and is dependable. I keep one just for these situations. If I were to run my vocal into the RCF, that's what I would use to control it. Next really small gig, I think I will try running both into the RCF instead of the Eon. My bet is it will sound better. No hate to the Eon, I've used them for years and they are better than many other options. But I am continually surprised at the capabilities of this NX speaker.
 
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Rick said:
Merlin, I am thinking the same thing. This is normally how I run PA amps anyway, so it should work fine. I was fairly impressed with how punchy the sound was at volume, actually got better the louder I went. That's not something many speaker systems can claim.



Joe, in normal situations I have a JBL Eon 15G2 as a vocal monitor. On occasion I have run the Axe II into it as well (extremely tight stages at low volume). It works, but the Eon doesn't really do the Axe Fx justice... it's just a workaround for special circumstances. My preference, and this is personal as you'll find many who disagree, is to keep most guitar out of the vocal monitor because it competes for space (one always seeming to cover the other). My band is heavy on vocal harmonies, and you have to hear clearly to stay in the pocket on changes. On this particular gig, the vocal monitor is a big Yamaha club series 15 and horn. Frankly, I'd rather have the Eon. The Yamaha is muddy, and lacks definition in the highs (the mixer is an Allen and Heath iLive, so they aren't cutting corners on the monitor rig!). We'll be back there tonight opening for Kevin Fowler (Texas country artist), so I will start much better prepared this time!

The NX12SMA has two inputs (sort of, parallel), but I would side with Chris on getting an outboard mixer so you could EQ the inputs independently. Mackie makes a small 4 channel unit I have used for similar purpose (mixing to my in ear monitors when I use them). It is called a 402VLZ3, and it is cheap ($100 new), sounds good and is dependable. I keep one just for these situations. If I were to run my vocal into the RCF, that's what I would use to control it. Next really small gig, I think I will try running both into the RCF instead of the Eon. My bet is it will sound better. No hate to the Eon, I've used them for years and they are better than many other options. But I am continually surprised at the capabilities of this NX speaker.
Click to expand...
Thanks Rick,
That's a great explanation. The small mixer arrangement sounds easy enough. In our situation, which is typically bar gigs and other small venues, I run the board (Presonus StudioLive) from the stage, since I'm the guitar player, sound man, roadie, banker, maintenance man, marriage counselor, etc. So I've got my hands full. Nevertheless, I can easily tweak my monitor mix right from the board.

That being said, I'm curious if when you're playing small gigs, do you ever flip your RCF around so it's behind you for a back line arrangement? The reason I ask is that we often wrestle with stage volume getting too loud and muddying up the mix. We've tried in-ears a few times but with no sound man out front, it's just too sketchy. I keep thinking that perhaps we should set up a back line arrangement and reduce the guitar levels through the PA. The few times we went in ears, and had a sound man available, our sound quality was really good. I'd much appreciate any recommendations from you and the other professionals here on the forum.
Thx,
Joe
 
We have tried the backline arrangement, which was very familiar to us from the amp stack heydays of our past. We found that we were actually able to lower stage volume by pointing amps cross-stage so they didn't have to go in the monitors at all. Guest players who have sat in with us universally comment on how quiet our stage is. I know many players and FOH engineers say they use the stage volume to fill the gap between speakers. This is ineffective, in my opinion, as it lacks any real control or vocal content. Better to do that with speakers, possibly spare monitors if needed.

I didn't know you were using a Presonus board. I use the 24.4.2 myself; alone in it's class as far as I am concerned! With that board, you can run the Axe II direct to the board and just use one of the auxes to mix for your monitor. You won't need any other mixers at all as the Presonus pres are plenty clean for this use.

We did the show with Kevin Fowler last night and everything went off fine. I am quite pleased with the RCF at this setting and will take Merlin17's suggestion on keeping it that way! It just works.
 
Thanks Rick. I'm going to give that side fill arrangement a try. Also, as you suggest, I'm gonna try running my vocal monitor independant of my guitar. I've got an extra K10 I can use. I like the sound and size/weight of a K10 for a vocal wedge. Myself and the other guitar player are presently both running an Axe II through a K12 and we're at opposite ends of the stage. I've been in a holding pattern to see what Atomic and Matrix come up with for the new speaker scheduled to be released soon. I may just run out of patience and pull the trigger on the RCF. There sure have been a lot of great reviews on the RCF lately, including yours.
Thanks for all your input. Much appreciated.
Joe
 
Rick, your comments on the RCF NX12SMA instigated a flare up of my G.A.S. affliction. I ordered the RCF last week and it arrived today. I've only played through it for about 20 minutes so far, so it's probably a bit premature to publish a review but I'll forget half of what I'm thinking by this time tomorrow. Also, I should mention that the only configuration I've ever used with my Ultra, and now my II, is playing FRFR through a QSC K12 which I've been darn happy with. No complaints. So much of what I'm commenting on is nothing new to you. I just thought I'd append your post so others who are thinking about the RCF can get my take on it as well.

First of all, I was really impressed with overall quality of the speaker just pulling it out of the box. Very intelligent design with the handle, controls, power cable, etc. Very nice components, fit, and finish. I love the form factor of the thing. It's not too tall when sitting on the floor. It's not too heavy either.

When I plugged it in to Output 2 of my Axe II (Output 1 goes to FOH) I cranked up the volume knob on the RCF to about 9 and then began twisting the output knob on the Axe. I was surprised at how loud it got with the Axe sitting at about 9 o'clock.

I started with a clean patch, my Shiva Clean that I use quite often. The first thing I noticed with this speaker is that it moves a lot of air. This is not a subtle difference to the K12, it's significant. It just feels more real. It also feels and sounds bigger than it is. It can trick you into thinking there's a 4X12 in the room. With either clean patches or high gain stuff, I noticed the speaker is a lot less directional than the K12. The sweet spot of the K12 is pretty narrow. I'm not sure the RCF has a sweet spot. It sounds good from right in front of it to 10 feet away.

As I moved through some of my other patches like my JCM800 and the Freidman, the RCF seems really happy to be cranked up and growling. It's got a smooth, buttery quality on those overdrive tones but still has plenty of grit. In the midst of all that gain and grit, it maintains a lot of definition and at the same time it's musical and articulate. It's easy to get some nice feedback going on.

As I touched on previously, it has a broad coverage area and a very consistant sound. I found the K12 sounded a lot different depending on where you were standing. The RCF isn't that way at all.

The next thing I noticed was how all my different patches seemed to have more uniqueness to them. When I jumped from a JCM800 to a Vox AC30, the difference between the two was more striking than through the K12. I guess you could say the characteristics of the different amps is more apparent with the RCF.

All that being said, I'm going to have to do a little tweaking on some of my presets with this new speaker, but not much. And I'm thinking that it will be easier to tweak than in the past because the tonal characteristics are so much easier to hear.

So I'm really looking forward to getting this speaker in the mix with my band. I'm eager to experiment with some different placement scenarios, perhaps the side fill option that Rick talked about.

In summary, I'm very happy with this speaker and would buy it again if I had to.

 
Big Joe Daddy said:
Rick, your comments on the RCF NX12SMA instigated a flare up of my G.A.S. affliction.
Click to expand...

I have definitely been in your shoes! This speaker got a lot of hype early on, along with a few stutter steps when there was a QC issue on the speakers, but once they got it ironed out it has been a solid option for Axe FXers ever since. I thought the "new" might rub off after a bit of gigging, but it is still knocking the socks off my previous setup. I finally have the CC paid off, and I am leaning heavily towards getting a second one to get some stereo mojo working on stage. I might try to save up and pay cash (I know, blasphemy)but can see a pair of these in my future. I am very, very happy to have taken the plunge, and glad it is proving the same for you!
 
Rick said:
I have definitely been in your shoes! This speaker got a lot of hype early on, along with a few stutter steps when there was a QC issue on the speakers, but once they got it ironed out it has been a solid option for Axe FXers ever since. I thought the "new" might rub off after a bit of gigging, but it is still knocking the socks off my previous setup. I finally have the CC paid off, and I am leaning heavily towards getting a second one to get some stereo mojo working on stage. I might try to save up and pay cash (I know, blasphemy)but can see a pair of these in my future. I am very, very happy to have taken the plunge, and glad it is proving the same for you!
Click to expand...

Well I thought I had reached the summit with my gear until I just read your post about adding a second RCF to your rig! I'll be standing by to hear your report once you've gone awol, I mean stereo. ;-)
 
Thanks for posting folks. With tone match starting to look better and better-I've been thing about trying to go just with the RCF. Hadnt considered running it all out. Next practice! I also hadnt thought about dropping it on it's head for a better projection angle-stage outward. I'll be trying that too! Button in or out for floor mode?
 
I'm glad I don't have the money and have to get along with my FBT 12ma, so I'll get to wait until some folks review the Atomic/Jay Mitchell colab. speakers.
You guys for sure know how to spark the g.a.s. urge ;)
That said, I'm satisfied with my FBT, most of the time it translates well to the patches I dial in on nearfields and to what I hear on FOH speakers. I'm just a bit undecided when it comes to high gain rhythm tones, but that may be more because of my patches and state of firmware. Version 7 has been a big step forward in that regard for me.
 
Sebastian, do you use any EQs with the FBT? It would surprise me A LOT if your patches translate without...
 
merlin17 said:
I always have my RCF volume on full and adjust with the AXE's output volume.
Click to expand...
+1, this is generally the best practice. I don't have an RCF, but most of these higher end powered monitors will have on board limiting.

I have also noticed with the AxeFX running DI to FRFR, it really makes a big difference in the tone to get the volume up to certain point. Not to play as loud as possible or drown out everyone else, but in a live band situation it takes some volume to get the guitar amp feel and response IME.
 
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Big Joe Daddy said:
Rick, your comments on the RCF NX12SMA instigated a flare up of my G.A.S. affliction. I ordered the RCF last week and it arrived today. I've only played through it for about 20 minutes so far, so it's probably a bit premature to publish a review but I'll forget half of what I'm thinking by this time tomorrow. Also, I should mention that the only configuration I've ever used with my Ultra, and now my II, is playing FRFR through a QSC K12 which I've been darn happy with. No complaints. So much of what I'm commenting on is nothing new to you. I just thought I'd append your post so others who are thinking about the RCF can get my take on it as well.

First of all, I was really impressed with overall quality of the speaker just pulling it out of the box. Very intelligent design with the handle, controls, power cable, etc. Very nice components, fit, and finish. I love the form factor of the thing. It's not too tall when sitting on the floor. It's not too heavy either.

When I plugged it in to Output 2 of my Axe II (Output 1 goes to FOH) I cranked up the volume knob on the RCF to about 9 and then began twisting the output knob on the Axe. I was surprised at how loud it got with the Axe sitting at about 9 o'clock.

I started with a clean patch, my Shiva Clean that I use quite often. The first thing I noticed with this speaker is that it moves a lot of air. This is not a subtle difference to the K12, it's significant. It just feels more real. It also feels and sounds bigger than it is. It can trick you into thinking there's a 4X12 in the room. With either clean patches or high gain stuff, I noticed the speaker is a lot less directional than the K12. The sweet spot of the K12 is pretty narrow. I'm not sure the RCF has a sweet spot. It sounds good from right in front of it to 10 feet away.

As I moved through some of my other patches like my JCM800 and the Freidman, the RCF seems really happy to be cranked up and growling. It's got a smooth, buttery quality on those overdrive tones but still has plenty of grit. In the midst of all that gain and grit, it maintains a lot of definition and at the same time it's musical and articulate. It's easy to get some nice feedback going on.

As I touched on previously, it has a broad coverage area and a very consistant sound. I found the K12 sounded a lot different depending on where you were standing. The RCF isn't that way at all.

The next thing I noticed was how all my different patches seemed to have more uniqueness to them. When I jumped from a JCM800 to a Vox AC30, the difference between the two was more striking than through the K12. I guess you could say the characteristics of the different amps is more apparent with the RCF.

All that being said, I'm going to have to do a little tweaking on some of my presets with this new speaker, but not much. And I'm thinking that it will be easier to tweak than in the past because the tonal characteristics are so much easier to hear.

So I'm really looking forward to getting this speaker in the mix with my band. I'm eager to experiment with some different placement scenarios, perhaps the side fill option that Rick talked about.

In summary, I'm very happy with this speaker and would buy it again if I had to.

Click to expand...

Exact same thing here - and I'm well over 8 months or so into this speaker and similar thoughts. I do find it directional, though it doesn't 'beam' at all which is perfect for this application.

Just a solid speaker that sounds and feels good. I sincerely love this box; it's flaws are absolutely minor even if you are looking for flaws.
 
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