4CM level issue

Jdzialak

Jdzialak

Member
I’ve had great sounds and flexibility using the FM9 4CM.
The only issue I am having is the way some of the blocks are reacting to the amp models, versus the preamp of my amplifier.

I have volume levels all matched when switching between channels and models, with no problems.
But I have the delay block on expression pedal 1, for mix level, ranging between 3% and 35% in series.
The FM9 amp models are way wetter than my amplifiers preamp.
I can’t figure out why the delays are grabbing on to those amp models more. And I can’t change the expression level range just for the amp blocks, or at least I haven’t figured out how to do that.
I tried to make the bottom range a little dryer, when using delay1 on ch A just for amp blocks (delay 1 ch B is for my amps preamp) but it affects all of the channels on delay 1.

I wonder if I need to use delay 2 on the amp blocks and delay 1 on the amp preamp, to separate the expression control?
 
Can you provide screen show of your routing? Without knowing the routing it's near impossible to start to guess what the issue could be, as well as possible fixes.

If you can't solve the underlying issue, the way I'd try to approach it is to run the delay in parallel to the dry signal (which I typically do anyway), set it to 'kill dry' (so it's just the delay signal coming from the delay block, not a mix of wet and dry), leave the XPDL setting as is, and then for the scenes using the real preamp use either channels or scene controllers to change the input or output levels on the delay - so the XPDL still functions the same, but the overall level of the delays is set lower/higher depending on whether you're using the real preamp or an amp block. You could also add a volume block before or after the delay (i.e., after the split of the wet and dry connections), or any block that allows volume control, that changes channels with the scenes, but I suspect that's unnecessary.
 
To add to Rumbletone's response: you will want to understand your amp's FX Loop. Is it 100% series? Parallel? Parallel will reduce the effective mix. It will for sure be in mono, so if your amp models are working with a stereo delay, that same delay will sound quite different in a mono FX loop. I find that switching a delay from stereo to mono reduces the delays quite a bit and I have to compensate. I also recommend running the delays in parallel with the main signal and mix at 100%. Same for reverb. I do that now with the amp models as well.
 
Thanks Rumbletone. That seems like a good fix with parallel delay.

I am in mono and my amps loop is series.

I was not happy with my delay in parallel before, but I probably didn’t have kill dry set correct.
 

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Yes, that’s correct.
I switch between that connection(amp preamp on) and the amp blocks.

If I delete that connection I’ll just hear the FM9 amp block.
 
Jdzialak said:
If I delete that connection I’ll just hear the FM9 amp block.
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Why? If output 3 is connected to input 3 via the amp (i.e., outside the Fractal), then why do you also need to also connect it in the Fractal? Wouldn't that be running the amp's preamp in parallel to a direct dry connection?
 
Jdzialak said:
Out 3 isn’t connected to Input 1 though.
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sorry I meant input 3 - corrected above. If I understand your setup correctly, output 3 routes to input 3 both through your amp AND in the FM9 preset, which I don't think is your intent. Try deleting that connection in the preset and see what happens.
 
Rumbletone said:
sorry I meant input 3 - corrected above. If I understand your setup correctly, output 3 routes to input 3 both through your amp AND in the FM9 preset, which I don't think is your intent. Try deleting that connection in the preset and see what happens.
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If that was the case, I’d hear both the selected amp block AND the preamp of my amp, I think. That’s not happening.
When OUT 3 is in the path and ON, I hear my preamp only, the amps blocks are muted.
 
Just to clarify, when using my amplifiers preamp, out3 is on along with in3, while both amp blocks are bypassed and muted.
When using the amp blocks, out3 and IN3 are bypassed.
 
Here’s how they look in both instances
 

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Jdzialak said:
Just to clarify, when using my amplifiers preamp, out3 is on along with in3, while both amp blocks are bypassed and muted.
When using the amp blocks, out3 and IN3 are bypassed.
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yes - but why does output 3 have a connection to input 3 in the preset? It is already connected externally through your amp. By adding a connection in the FM9 preset, you are creating a connection path that is parallel to the preamp.

Apologies if I'm not explaining it well. Just delete the connection from output 3 to input 3 and see what happens - it will take 3 seconds. In any event, you can try what I am suggesting or not.
 
Rumbletone said:
yes - but why does output 3 have a connection to input 3 in the preset? It is already connected externally through your amp. By adding a connection in the FM9 preset, you are creating a connection path that is parallel to the preamp.

Apologies if I'm not explaining it well. Just delete the connection from output 3 to input 3 and see what happens - it will take 3 seconds. In any event, you can try what I am suggesting or not.
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Ahhhh. I see what you mean. Duh 🤦🏼‍♂️
Removing the path does not change anything.
Everything works as it should.

However, the delay is still way more wet with the amp blocks. So that path obviously had nothing to do with my original issue. Just something extra I had in the preset that I didn’t need. Thanks!

I’ll work on the parallel delay thing next.
I don’t see any kill dry. Unless that just means mix at 100%
 
Thanks all. I got a fix on another forum for the delay thing.

“ I always recommend using the 'Input Gain' parameter for altering delay and reverb levels instead of the 'Mix' parameter. This will leave the 'tails' unaltered as you lower them, much smoother transitions.

You could use two different channels of the Delay block with identical settings at first. Use the 'Input Gain' method mentioned above. Start with a range of 15% to 100%? Use one delay channel for all four amp sim scenes, and the other for all four Amp head scenes. Then set the 'Mix' of the two channels to give the desired max delay levels with the expression pedal floored.”
 
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